Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Oldsalt,

Your fan blade needs to be turned over. This type of blade design is directional so it's no good just changing the polarity of the motor.

While it still blows, running the blades backward losses around 30% efficiency makes more noise and can cause blade breakage due to stresses.

Put some loctite/thread locker on the nut when you’re finished too.

Mick

[oldsalt Member Find all posts View Profile Close oldsalt]

Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Oldsalt,

Your fan blade needs to be turned over. This type of blade design is directional so it's no good just changing the polarity of the motor.

While it still blows, running the blades backward losses around 30% efficiency makes more noise and can cause blade breakage due to stresses.

Put some loctite/thread locker on the nut when you’re finished too.

Mick

Thanks Mick all fixed.

I dunno where we would be without you Mick, thanks.

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Finally had some more time to spend on this and managed to build the controller/frequency switch. This is a Silicon Chip kit available though Jaycar (#KC5378) for under $40 and takes about an hour to solder together. It's pretty straight forward and only has a handfull of components.

I've set it up to run on falling frequency with a switch on point of 25kmph and have set the hysteresis to turn off at 40kmph. I'll see how this goes in real world driving once it's installed this weekend and can adjust as required.







Mick

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Nice work Mick!

Michael

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Mick, loved the sophistication but I am a little confused - I thought you would want the fan definitely on at slow speed: 0-25kph, but you've set it to come on at 25kph and off at 40kph. Watching the scanguage air intake temperature would suggest that once road speed is at 25kph + things start to cool down thru airflow alone. Also for slow trails an overide switch may be needed to get it going when you just cant get to 25kph.

Have to admit it is much neater set up than my fan sitting on top.
Cheers
Dock

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Mick, loved the sophistication but I am a little confused - I thought you would want the fan definitely on at slow speed: 0-25kph, but you've set it to come on at 25kph and off at 40kph. Watching the scanguage air intake temperature would suggest that once road speed is at 25kph + things start to cool down thru airflow alone. Also for slow trails an overide switch may be needed to get it going when you just cant get to 25kph.

Sorry I should have explained it better.
It has a hysteresis for the on/off switch point. I've set this to prevent the relay chattering and the fan coming on an off multiple times if you are crawling along at around 25 kmph.

The deceleration switch point is 25 and the acceleration switch point is 40kmph

So; As I slow down it will come on at 25kmph and run all the time (Inc down to a stop) and not turn off again until the speed is back up to 40 kmph.

Mick

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Got it - might give that a go myself.
Cheers
DocK

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Finally got this little project finished.
The frequency switch is a great bit of kit and is ideal to run an intercooler fan and will greatly increase the fans life.

Using the speed signal means the fan is only on when it needs to be (low vehicle speed)

It’s very simple to hook up with only three wires; earth, 12v and the pulse input wire. (Apart from the relay outputs)

I picked up the speed pulse at the engine ECU and power from the drivers side fuse box.

The green wire in the following picture tapped into the speed pulse input.
Installation only took 20 minutes, if that.



I left the leads long so the passenger could adjust the unit while I drove. Afterwards the fan was connected and the unit tucked under the dash out of sight.

Set up basically involves a few laps around the block and adjusting the unit until you have the settings you have.




Mick

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Call me a sceptic...but in my opinion mounting a fan on a TMIC (Top mount intercooler) will do Sweet F.A. the gains if any will be so small that most of us wouldn't even notice them (unless you get the Placebo effect ).

What am I basing this on? Well before joining the Prado world I've owned/modified/tuned a Wrx which has one thing in common with the Prado...and that is TMIC.

I replaced the original TMIC which was on my Wrx with a later model's STI version (the core was roughly 33% bigger in size), also I've replaced the bird catcher (read bonnet scoop) with the STI version which is also bigger. My performance gains were in order of few horse power...don't want to make up any numbers as I haven't got the dyno sheet in front of me but it would not be anymore than perhaps 10ph or 7kw. Now that's by increasing the size of the intercooler.

By having a closed bonnet with no bonnet scoop a fan does nothing but simply recirculate already hot air that's inside the engine bay. I'm sure it cools the it somewhat but will it make a difference in performance....not much in my opinion.

Much better to spend the money on a decent mandrel bent exhaust and perhaps getting a tune (not sure if there are any programable piggy back systems for d4d or petrol engines).

This is my 2 cents...I'm sure it improves it a bit but in my honest opinion it's only a drop in the ocean but I'm happy to be proved wrong.

The other thing is, you'd need to make sure that the fan is actually pushing the air from the top to the bottom and not sucking the air from the bottom, up therefore the blades need to rotate in the correct direction

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Call me a sceptic...but in my opinion mounting a fan on a TMIC (Top mount intercooler) will do Sweet F.A. the gains if any will be so small that most of us wouldn't even notice them (unless you get the Placebo effect ).

What am I basing this on? Well before joining the Prado world I've owned/modified/tuned a Wrx which has one thing in common with the Prado...and that is TMIC.

I replaced the original TMIC which was on my Wrx with a later model's STI version (the core was roughly 33% bigger in size), also I've replaced the bird catcher (read bonnet scoop) with the STI version which is also bigger. My performance gains were in order of few horse power...don't want to make up any numbers as I haven't got the dyno sheet in front of me but it would not be anymore than perhaps 10ph or 7kw. Now that's by increasing the size of the intercooler.

I don't remember making any wild claims, but it helps with heat soak and for under $70 plus my time I think it's pretty good bang for your buck compared to the 10 times, or more, the value of the mods you are comparing them too.

Intercooler mods alone on any car will never make more then a few KW, but (Using your WRX as an example) by fitting a bigger scoop and intercooler you would have had a lower intake temperature meaning you could have raised the boost and fuel thus making a lot more power before reaching the point where you had detonation.

Two things straight up...

First up we are not shooting for outright KW here we are addressing the issue of heat soak at low speeds, something we see a lot off in a 4wd.

Second is that a petrol car is actually on boost, let alone full boost, bugger all of the time compared to a diesel. A diesel boosts under almost all driving conditions even steady cruise at low speed so anything that can improve effiency is a good thing especially down at low vehicle speeds were there is little airflow through the intercooler. So your comparison means little.

By having a closed bonnet with no bonnet scoop a fan does nothing but simply recirculate already hot air that's inside the engine bay. I'm sure it cools the it somewhat but will it make a difference in performance....not much in my opinion.

It's not a closed bonnet, it's double skinned and draws cool air for the intercooler from behind the grill, maybe pop you bonnet and have a look.

Much better to spend the money on a decent mandrel bent exhaust and perhaps getting a tune (not sure if there are any programable piggy back systems for d4d or petrol engines).

Dock and I both already have these mods.

The other thing is, you'd need to make sure that the fan is actually pushing the air from the top to the bottom and not sucking the air from the bottom, up therefore the blades need to rotate in the correct direction

This is already mentioned to Oldsalt in this thread.

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

All I can say about the placebo effect is = I went to the expense of putting it on the dyno - which actually cost more than the mod itself - and the gain was 5KW at the rear wheel. Now that is stationary in the dyno with engine heat soak at its worst. That is, the car was hot after dyno runs with the fan off and then fan on. This is consistent with other vehciles as well. Does it translate to seat of the pants driving gains - well in slow driving and crawling up rocky trails and sand dunes I think it actually does. Cost comparison per Kw gain is as follows
1. Fan = $14
2. LPG = $164
3. Chip - $88
4. 3 inch dump pipe and free flow exhaust = $48
I know because I have them all!

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

fair call Mick/Dock, don't get me wrong I'm not having a go at you just wondering if it's worth the effort?

have you thought of replacing the tube and fin with a bar and plate perhaps? Bar and plate would make the it laggier however on a big 3ltr engine it'd fairly minor and bar+plate are a lot more efficient at cooling

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

have you thought of replacing the tube and fin with a bar and plate perhaps?

If something fell in my lap I'd change the intercooler, but it's not something I want to spend more than a little money on. The 1kz isn't exactly a perfomance unit and I've already put the money into those things that make the most difference (Exhaust, boost controller, tuning/fuelling).

Mick

[IMm29 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close IMm29]

Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Mick

Hi Mick,

Curious questions. Could I do away with the intercooler duct and fit an 11" fan on top of the Intercooler, assuming I could find a way to mount the fan? What cons come to mind with this set up?

Thanks.

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Re: Intercooler Upgrade - adding a fan

Curious questions. Could I do away with the intercooler duct and fit an 11" fan on top of the Intercooler, assuming I could find a way to mount the fan? What cons come to mind with this set up?

Sorry about the delayed reply, I've been unable to spare much time for PradoPoint of late due to other commitments.

I don't see an advantage of the 11 inch fan over the 9 inch unit. The 9 inch one covers the core almost edge to edge. Also by removing the duct you would potentially be circulating hot engine air, or at the very least mixing it with the cool air to some degree.

Mick