3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

I did try the local ARB as it happens, I live about 5 mins away from them so it's kind of dangerous :mrgreen: . Funny thing, when I emailed Manta (WA exhaust makers), they mailed me back saying to contact ARB as they were now beginning to fit up their exhaust systems. When I did actually call ARB they knew absolutely nothing about it, and told me they did not do exhausts at all. So all a bit perplexing. :?

For some extra advice, I have emailed Darren McRae of Autocraft fame in Geelong. His advice was to forget doing anything with the dump pipe, and just go with a free flowing muffler etc as planned. Then put the saved money towards a Steinbauer unit for very decent results. Darren helped me out with my Bilsteins and Ridepro coils some time back, all good, so I thought the Autocraft blokes might have some wisdom on this issue. They did. 8)

So, sounds pretty much like Prado BB's type of setup. As it happens, I was actually eyeballing a Steinbauer anyhow. Was going to wait a bit but may have to rethink that. 8)

With everything considered, I'm just going to do the custom job with no dump pipe change for now. It'll be interesting to see what difference it makes. Hopefully a Steinbauer to follow soon.

Best I can tell is that doing the dump pipe would give you added benefit. But you get decent enough benefit with just free flowing system and performance chip.

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Well -- It's official. I'm a damned blingin hoon! :twisted:

Now. Dump pipe. We did it, in the end. 8) She's 3" in diameter now. 8)
High flow Cat.
Straight through muffler.
Blingin chrome pipe end. (Embarrassing as hell!)

Once again, sorry for the wretched photos. Other stuff keeps getting put above a better camera on the list. :roll:

LAE Electronic EGT guage, courtesy of Turbotech in Perth and a pricetag you really don't want to know about. :lol:



The other end. Turbo's on the right. Probe goes straight into the dump pipe. 8)



The new dump pipe from down below. Nicely painted too! 8)



Nice shiny high flow CAT. 8) This was my choice to have this added. The blokes at the workshop said many many people don't put CAT's into their systems, as it is not yet required. I thought just to save any future issues I'd fit one. This was around $250 - $300.



Bit further along.



Muffler is a lot smaller than the Toyota standard one.


Says 'Super Cat' as far as I can tell.



The blingin pipe end :roll: I just always thought these were for posers etc etc etc. Heck!! Now I'm a friggin poser as well! ops:






Initial thoughts? After a few shortish drives, it is certainly louder. Not a heck of a lot though, but certainly noticeable, especially under hard acceleration. Under normal driving conditions I can pick the extra noise, but it's nothing to write home about. The blokes at the exhaust shop say that the new muffler will need time to 'bed down', something about the glass inside it? The system does produce a 'note' now, which to me seems a bit whack for a diesel 4WD but that's the break. I didn't go into it to get any sort of note out of the system but I got one anyhow. Meh..... I'll get used to it. Just hope it won't get too annoying on long trips, which is my main concern with it. Again though, I'm told the note will become deeper and somewhat less noticeable as the muffler beds down. I also noticed louder pinging in the engine as I went up the freeway on my way home from the exhaust place. Was that there before???? I dunno for sure now that I think about it. I'll see how it goes.

Overall I'm very happy with the work done by Carline Grapnel Mufflers in Balcatta. It appears I was mixed up with another customer when I was told no dump pipe over the phone, because I was told there'd be no issue for me to get a 3" dump fitted to the Prado when I turned up at the workshop. I was allowed in to look at the installation as it was being fitted together, and I wasn't treated like an annoying idiot when I asked questions about the steel pipe used etc etc and a thousand other questions they probably get every day. Friendly blokes there who I'd easily recommend Perthites at least call and discuss their needs with before doing anything. If there's a spare lift there when you visit just for info, up goes your car on the lift and they'll point out and explain exactly what will be going on. That was the only place I visited in my travels who took the time to explain things this way to potential customers. The best part of it all was that the work was done on a Saturday, in Perth! No I'm not kidding!

The entire system cost me $1200.00. Plus the EGT gauge cost that you really don't want to know about.

Next up is a Steinbauer unit that Autocraft in Geelong has given me a PP member discount on! Sheesh! Gotta love the power of the PP Forum! Many thanks Autocraft! And PP!

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

IP I have been following this thread with interest as you have been as capricious as I was. So, can you tell us whether you feel it has made any change to performance? ....and yes, I would like to know the price of the EGT

Cheers

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Heck! Performance! The reason I did this and completely forgot to mention it.

I 'll need a few more dives to convince myself, but what really stands out right now is the distinctive extra pull on the change from 2nd into 3rd and then say halfway through the rev range up to 4th. There's no question about it, definitely more pull in that range, I noticed the difference straight away. First up to second also seems to have a little more grit, nothing Earth shattering, but I'm fairly certain I feel a bit of extra go there as well. For now, didn't notice anything in 6th on the freeway, but that was a fairly flat and sedate affair. Need some countryside hills to better test that. And errrrr..... a friggin holiday to do just that would be nice too.........

So ok, it's not a magical miraculous transformation. But, it does make a difference and the benefits are already clearly noticeable to me. Over time I'll see if the extra noise bugs me or not, but seeing as my last vehicle was a 88 Diesel Lux which rendered all attempts at stereo listening impossible, I'll think I'll manage.

Ok ok! :lol: Normally what I do with with such things is go straight on the net and see what I can buy things for from online retailers. But this time I didn't and paid through the nose. TurboTech on Great Eastern Highway in Perth does LAE Electronics Pyrometer (EGT Guage) kits for $340.00. But you can do much better than that online. I get the feeling that the actual digital display and the heat probe are separately manufactured in this case. Like you can buy any number of heat probes to fit the LAE digital unit. Turbotech just gets together all the parts you need and makes up their own kits. Not bad except the wiring from the probe is not heat shielded like it is with many other kits, so I had to find my own heat shield tubing to go on it for the wiring near the turbo etc. And also the wiring up process was poorly explained, so it was a case of trial and error to correctly connect the probe to the display.

Can anyone tell me what the dangerzone temperatures are?

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Thanks IP

Sounds like a good result. what sort of temps you getting? MickL is the man to answer your question, however I believe on the 1KZ it's around 600-700 mark.
cheers

[leachy_9 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close leachy_9]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Can anyone tell me what the dangerzone temperatures are?

I have my alarm set for 600 degrees.

If you are installing the Steinbauer youself, give me a yell if you need help identifying the TPS wire. From memory it is not that obvious.

Leachy

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Thanks Leachy. I might do just that!

Now. Seems I've spoken too soon about the quality of work done. 90% of the work is top notch as far as I can see.

But then I found that the tail section of the system has been joined and sealed with silastic at a join just above the rear axle!

:evil: What -- The hell -- is that! :evil:

Silastic on an exhaust system!! Are you kidding me!! Unless they make a special heat resistant clear goo these days! But it looks like the plain old stuff to me!

What's happened is they've fed the tail section through from the back, slotted it into the rest of the system, tack welded it on, and sealed the lot with silastic (or something similar). There's a U-bolt holding it all together at that point as well.

So of course it's leaking! There's clearly soot etc all around the join.

:evil: NOT HAPPY :evil:

Monday morning phone call here we come.......

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

that's very disappointing IP, especially given your earlier praising of the mob. Hopefully they will sort it out without too much bother.

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Too right Prado BB. Considering that everything else is really very neat looking and welded / fitted together with obvious skill.

To find that was really disappointing. Maybe they hoped I wouldn't ever see that join stuck right up in there where it is. In fact I can only think that that is the case because it is a clear cut below the rest of the work they did. You need to slide right under the back of the vehicle on your back to see it. I note that the original Toyota pipe section is straight through with no join in that area. Perhaps the larger diameter pipe made that impossible, I don't know. But I'll certainly be asking why there needs to be a join there, and why it was sealed with clear silastic. I'm certain there's sealants etc made exactly for that purpose. However, I didn't pay for a bogged-up exhaust. With my admittedly limited knowledge, I understand that even the best exhaust cements etc eventually rattle loose. God only knows how long the stuff they've used will last. Actually I'm glad I found it today, so I can calm down a bit before I call them.

I think once I question it, they'll fix it without questions. But now they've got my money we'll see if they're still as friendly. But I think they will be.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Intersting read http://www.news.com.au/national/rural-f ... 5932618890

I wonder if the 'diesel particulate diffuser' mentioned is the same as a cat. I'm always nervous when parking a hot petrol vehicle on grass now looks like the same holds true for diesel.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Not good, hey?

My understanding is that newer diesels are coming with a DPF that does the regen burn thing - next years Prado will have one, Pajero already has it. Current models have a diesel cat.

Exhausts have been a problem with starting fires for ever, these just make it worse...

Be careful where you stop. In the middle of your mate's wheat crop is a very bad idea (as he told me when I did)...

Michael

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Well. Being an ex-farmer I can tell you we never parked any vehicle in and around tinder-dry wheat crops. We already had enough crops go up in smoke with lightening strikes, header bearing failures, and fools who ran off the highway that ran through our property. Even had some fool transport a barbecue on a trailer in the middle of summer still going and sparks flying all over the place. Needless to say, that guy wasn't exactly popular for a long time afterward. I've seen a 15 bag crop go up in smoke and I can tell you it's not a pretty sight, damn scary more like.

The 'Cat' that was put on my system was referred to as a 'Purifier', with the exhaust guy telling me they are essentially the same thing. How true that statement is I really can't say.

Now. I just need to say that the problem I reported above has been fully rectified by the exhaust place. I'm still not fully convinced with the high-temp silicone they've used in join above the rear differential, but, the guy at the exhaust place says he will stand by his work any day, and If the join develops another leak he'll weld it properly. The reason there's a join there at all, apparently, is due to the fact that the larger diameter pipe could not be threaded all the way back to the muffler in one piece. If it ever needs to be removed, say in the middle of a trip etc, then it can easily be done with the join as it is now. If it's welded then it'll be harder to remove because it will require cutting. Fair enough I guess. But I'd be interested to know if other people's 3" systems also have a join above / around the rear diff.

And to be fair, Carline Grapnell mufflers rectified the issue with professionalism and good grace, assuring me that any issue to do with workmanship on the system throughout it's life will be rectified by them without issue.

Another Issue I had was upon startup I was getting a thump from somewhere near rear of the vehicle. Typically, I was told, new exhaust systems do shift around a bit as they essentially settle in. And, with a 3" system in place there isn't a lot of room left over for any shifting to occur. The standard Toyota exhaust mounts involve a fairly soft rubber piece that attaches a metal rod off the system to the chassis etc. When I hit the starter, the whole system was jolting the mounts in one particular spot enough to produce the thump, clearly discernible from the drivers seat. A much harder rubber commodore mount was used in that area to fix the problem. So far so good with that.

Another issue was a noise that sounded like a manifold blow. Very tough to tell where it coming from. It was very very subtle, and I could only hear it when I was cruising up the freeway at at say 80 - 100km/h, and then just feed on a little accelerator. With the window down, under heavy acceleration etc you couldn't hear it at all. But it was certainly there. Anyhow, two days before I got back the exhaust guy, the noise disappeared, completely. I just suddenly noticed it wasn't there anymore, but I went for several runs up the freeway to make sure. Once again, the most likely scenario is that one the bolted joins took a bit of running in to get bedded down properly.

After having driven around for a few weeks now I can certainly tell the difference. Definitely more torque across the entire rev range, but I really notice the difference in 2nd going around corners, especially where there's an uphill slope involved. Definitely more up n go at my disposal now.

Received my Steinbauer module from Autocraft this week. I'll be fitting that in the next few weeks and hopefully take some pics along the way for others who might be interested in fitting one as well.

[leachy_9 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close leachy_9]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

I'd be interested to know if other people's 3" systems also have a join above / around the rear diff.

My TaipanXP system has a gasketed 2 bolt flange near the rear diff section.

Leachy

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

Yep ok then the story sounds like it might have merit. The original Toyota exhaust does not have a join there at all, but is smaller in diameter of course. Maybe the bolted flange is an option though too. Might suggest that if it ends up being a problem, seems the logical solution now I think about it. Anyhow, it's all good for now, and I'm into the next project which is the Steinbauer.

[nickchap Member Find all posts View Profile Close nickchap]

Re: 3" Exhausts And Cat Converters.

I thought I would add some more fire to the 3" debate :wink:

I have a 3" Pacemaker exhaust fitted to my '04 120.
It was proto-typed, gigged then fitted by my mate at Pacemaker some months ago and has been released on the market.
It comes off the dump pipe flange as replacing the dump pipe with 3" can create other problems and costs for not a lot more benefit.
The system comes in three sections and are joined by flanges.

The S/S mesh is a flexable joint ( great for diesels that shake their heads)

The second section includes the muffler and goes over the diff.



The third section joins rear of the diff and includes a rear resonator and rear pipe(No bling end yet :lol: )






The existing mounting points of the old exhaust are used.
My '04 120 was not fitted with a cat converter so was not included in the fit.
Eventhough I did not fit the system myself it looks pretty simple for someone lying on their back with a set of sockets

As I said I have had the system on for some months now and have had no problems with it.
The car has a lot better throttle responce and power. It is more willing to change down a gear with less throttle.
As far as fuel I could not say but you do not seem to be pushing the right peddle as hard to get the same responce as before.
The sound?-No noticable increase a idle but a nice unintrusive burble when under load and at 100K

I am very happy with the Pacemaker system and it could be an alterative that any of you guys (or girls :P ) could
fit yourself for $1000- or less

Regards, Nick