Have a V6, should I swap over to a D4D?

[Rosie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rosie]

Hey All, been doing heaps of homework but can't seem to make up my mind what I should do. I've got a mint 2007 VX V6 Petrol Prado which is fully decked out and i absolutely love. Only issue is my constant 18L/100 fuel usage with a weekly mix of half city, half country driving. I've got all the usual ARB stuff, Bull Bar, Bash Plates, 2" lift, 265 BFG ATs, Winch, Dual Batts, Roof Rack with Awning/Shovel/Hi-Lift, Drawers, 60L Water Tank, Engel etc and keep wondering how much cheaper a D4D will be to run, Im currently averaging about 550 kms a week. I'm about to splurge on the Kaymar wheel carrier as well but am really tempted to buy a Diesel to swap everything over to and then sell mine.

What are peoples opinions there? I recon it could cost me around 5-10k to do the swap for a comparable vehicle but id also have to budget in an injector change as some point so perhaps the Petrol won't come out much worse off? I don't drive like an idiot but always like to sit on 110 and overtake so i know thats a big factor.

Anyone else in the same boat?

What sort of consumption are the D4D 120s getting when set up like mine?

Thanks, Ben

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey,

Keep the V6. The diesels are a potentially explosive and costly battle.

See this very detailed thread from ####;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-seats-Egr-Scv

While there is no definitive cost analysis, common opinion is that D4D maintenance costs will offset any gains in fuel economy compared to the V6 petrol.

I get a similar economy from my V6, with a similar setup to yours, but I'll take it every day compared to a sluggish diesel.

Best

Mark

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

I suspect you will wait a long time to get your money back. A D4D loaded like that will probably get between 11 and 12 L/100km. Do the numbers based on fuel costs locally but add in higher service costs for the D4D and a set of injectors at 120k.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey,

I just checked average fuel prices for diesel vs petrol nationally;

http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/retail.htm

If we use $1.42/l and 18l/100km for petrol and $1.35/l and 12l/100km for diesel, then with an average driving of 550km/week, the diesel is cheaper to run by $2676.96/year.

So as mj has stated, it could be a long time to recoup this difference.

Does anyone have an accurate petrol vs diesel service schedule cost estimate (120 series) so we can compare service cost over say a 150,000km lifetime?

Extra costs include replacing injectors at 120,000km, but what about other extras, such as more regular oil changes, stripping down/cleaning/maintenance (non service schedule, such as oil pickup screen, egr system cleaning etc.) work that will be required to keep the D4D in decent nick and not go bang?

Maybe #### can give an accurate estimate of extra non service scheduled work?

One thing about this argument, the cost of diesel vs petrol fluctuates so much. For example, I'm more used to seeing diesel cost more than petrol in Brisbane, at the moment they're almost equal.

I'm not sure we can do an accurate model of this into the future, but we could model it based off historical prices over say the last 15 years when D4D's have been around.

I'd be interested to see these numbers, but it wouldn't sway me to a diesel....unless it's a diesel that goes as hard as my V6 petrol!

Best

Mark

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

but what about other extras, such as more regular oil changes,

Oil change intervals are exactly the same for Petrol or the D4D, 10,000kms.

Cheers Andrew

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey,

As I said above, more regular oil changes outside the normal service schedule may be required for the D4D. Every 5000km has been suggested by #### in his thread, due to oil getting carbonised from compression gases that are leaking through copper injector seats. Carbonised oil is blocking the pickup screen, and leading to lubrication issues.....eventually engines go bang.

You may or may not wish to change your engine oil more regularly, but I know if I owned a D4D, I would be!

Best

Mark

[BiLLz0r Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close BiLLz0r]

No way in the world would I get a D4Detonation. The fact it can go boom at any time is too much of a worry. The extra attention you need to give it isn't worth it. Petrol model is so simple. If I go over 1K km no biggy. When I put the pedal down it goes and sounds great.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Hey,

As I said above, more regular oil changes outside the normal service schedule may be required for the D4D. Every 5000km has been suggested by #### in his thread, due to oil getting carbonised from compression gases that are leaking through copper injector seats. Carbonised oil is blocking the pickup screen, and leading to lubrication issues.....eventually engines go bang.

You may or may not wish to change your engine oil more regularly, but I know if I owned a D4D, I would be!

Best

Mark

Changing oil that often for those reasons doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Spend the money and change the seats, which rectifies the problem, don't waste money on unnecessary oil changes that don't help the issue at all.

I haven't ever seen any evidence that 5k oil changes on a D4D does anything to improve its lifespan or performance.

Cheers Andrew

[kav Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close kav]

Don't forget to add in the cost of the boxes and boxes of Kleenex tissues you will need .

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Spend the money and change the seats, which rectifies the problem

Hey,

Will changing the seats/upgrading injectors "rectify the problem"?

The CRD injectors are still asked to do an incredibly tough job. Sub-micron toleranced injectors, with pre-filters bigger than 1 micron is what makes no sense to me when it comes to CRD engines.

Every time I see a secondary diesel filter go in, I think what a waste of money.

Diesel fuel will never be clean enough and be filtered to sub-micron tolerances, practically this is immensely difficult and expensive to do.

The Euro quest to produce "clean diesels" is a failure. There is so much pollution from diesels in major European cities, they are banning them from the CBD;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ners-warn.html

You might think I'm biased towards petrol engines, and I am from the point of view that I like a powerful engine that is not a slug. However, my first 4wd was a 60 series with a non-turbo 2H diesel, and in reliability terms, it couldn't be stopped, and I'm sure it's still out there getting people to great places today.

I'd love to buy a 79 series with the V8 diesel tomorrow if I had the coin, as it has some get up and go....but it is also a CRD engine, and I wonder how many problems it has!?

The old diesel vs petrol argument only has meaning to me in terms of real grunt and reliability. I will drive either if they have both! Presently, I have no doubt that the V6 in my 120 has a bit of grunt and will last me another 150,000km, but I wouldn't risk owning a current model D4D.

There's an apt old saying just for AJ, diesel is for trucks and aeroplanes!

Best

Mark

[topic97 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close topic97]

Depends on what you value the most - Fuel economy or reliability.
Now days because of the ever increasing price of fuel, the marketing gurus of car companies see this as a main selling point and therefore ram it down our throats.

All you need to do is look at car ads. What do they say?
It's all "look at x car, it has bluetooth, power windows, ipod/pad integration, talks to you & uses hardly any fuel" because they know they can get us interested focusing on the trivial things.

But are they really what we really want or NEED in a car?
How about how safe a car is, how much it costs to service & how reliable it is?
Surely these three things come well and truly before every other piece of marketing fluff that they preach?!

Point is, you drive a safe, reliable & ultimately efficient car for the power it has vs the weight it has to carry.
The rest is in your head - dont let the marketing departments win......Because as soon as you change to a diesel, they will find a way to make you want to go back to petrol!

[MUMSRIG Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MUMSRIG]

I was thinking of doing the same thing with MUMSRIG and rekon I could get away with a $5K outlay. Simple fact remains is that it is still a 120 that is loosing value daily and will loose more again when the new Prado gets released. Plus its still racking up the kays... I think I'm going to bight the bullet and get out of it even though I love the car as we have spent a motsa on it doing all the mods etc...

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Hey,

Will changing the seats/upgrading injectors "rectify the problem"?

In relation to the blow by causing the pickup to block, which is the often quoted reason for needing 5k oil changes, which is what I was commenting on, yes it will rectify the problem.

I think everyone should go a petrol, that will help keep the price of diesel lower and I can save even more money with my diesel than I already do



Cheers Andrew

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

I don't think anyone has mentioned the most basic reason we bought a diesel: Range.

Vehicle performance on outback trips are not about the best acceleration for us, it's about the distances between fuel stops and the diesel has a healthy advantage.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Aeroplanes?