3rd row child restraints

[David See Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David See]

Hi all,

Is there any known way we can secure child seats using the usual mounting bolt to the rear row of seats in our 04 Prado? The middle row has mounting points on the back of each seat, but not the 3rd row.

Has anyone done this in some way already??

Cheers,

David

[JJT Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JJT]

You will have to get a bar installed in the rear of the Prado as the anchor point. Most large "baby stores" will know where to get this done. Hope this helps?

[Billy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Billy]

Hi David

We went to the local engineering place that came highly recommended - apparently this company is the only one in Perth that will do custom anchor points(with an engineering certificate). They do all the mods for vehicles used for people with disabilities, in terms of extra anchor pts etc so they know their stuff and have dealt with many types of vehicle.

However, they hadn't had a Prado in before, but really had a GOOD look at it, tried this angle, tried that and the conclusion was that anchor pts in the third row could be safely done on the Landcruiser, but not the Prado - went around the back with them while they checked it out and they had people crawling in and out and under the Prado checking this and that - they were very thorough.

Specifically it was something along the lines of that even if you did go against engineering advice and install them in the third row, the rear seats were not designed to take the load, because of they way they are made/fold etc. That if a child restraint was in the third row with anchor point fitted, in an accident with tether strap/restraint in and going over the back of the seat as they do, the seat would buckle first - the tether strap would hold up better than the seat. The design of the rear seat is not compatible with installation of a child restraint and it's requirements.

For those reasons and more, the luggage tie down points should not be used either. Not only are the luggage tie down points not designed for or rated as anchor points (hence them being called luggage tie down points), they are intalled off centre to where an anchor point would be and still have the problem of the seat as mentioned above.

They also said that while there is room in a Landcruiser to fit a 'crab' or a post style bar, then attach the anchor pt, there isn't sufficient room between the back of the rear seats, and the back door, in a Prado to fit that bar AND have the points fitted in the spot that's required by the engineer. For the same reason, the 'post' style system wouldn't work either (possibilities are bolt, crab bar or post).

For us, we need child restraints in our Prado up until children are 32/34kgs (depending on which H harness you're using) and for our guys, this will be a little while off apart from the eldest.

and just FYI
There are plans underway from the Govt to make it mandatory for parents to seat children safely ETA http://www.ntc.gov.au/filemedia/Repo...RISMay2007.pdf - a response to toddlers and Kinder/Primary being placed on just the seat alone, in the front seat etc and the injuries and fatalities which can result in an accident when a child is in an adult belt alone, in the front seat or in a child restraint that they are too young for.
Remembering it's a draft at this stage here's the main 'bits'

The new proposed Baby Car Seat laws sourced from the National Transport Commission are;

1) Children must use rearward facing child restraints up to six months old.
2) Children six months up to their fourth birthday must use a rearward or forward facing child restraint with in-built harness
3) Children from four years up to their seventh birthday must use a booster seat
4) Children up to their fourth birthday must sit in the rear seat
5) Children up to seventh birthday to sit in rear seat unless all rear seats are already occupied by children under seven.

The main point to recognize from the proposed draft is to reduce what is known as “Premature Graduation”. This is where the child is moved too quickly from one child restraint seat to another (i.e. Convertible car seat (0-18kg to Booster seat 14-26kg) or from a Booster seat to an Adult Seat Belt in the vehicle . To ensure your child get the best protection, one of the proposals (2) states children should be in a forward facing baby car seat with an inbuilt harness until the age of 4 years.

The changes have also proposed children ( from 4-7 years must be seated in a Baby Booster Car Seat ) 14-26kg.

We would strongly recommend that from the ages of four to seven the additional Child Safety Harness is used in conjunction with a baby booster car seat to help restrain the upper part of a child’s body as well as keeping the belt around the hip area tight.

The problem with this is that while it's a good idea in principle, the practicalities need to be sorted ie that the weight and height for those children exceeds the current restraints available to purchase, not to mention that those with more than three children who require restraints under the new legislation will have a challenge in finding a vehicle with more than three anchor pts. Even some of the latest 'people movers' only have three anchor pts.

Anyway, I hope that helps. The answer we were given is no, it is not possible to instal anchor pts in the rear row in the Prado. There are also potential issues later re insurance if you do an 'illegal' installation ie not approved by an engineer. Haven't looked into that admittedly, but it would be something to consider if you're planning on doing it. Like any other mod re insurance I guess.

HTH (and thanks to my wife for this post)

[Grandeman Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Grandeman]

Great and informative post, Billy.

This has always been an issue for those of us with more than a few kids (4 in our case).

Bugger it, even our Tarago has only two anchor points.

In any event, I guess I found a reason to have to look at a 200 series Cruiser - for the safety of the kids, you understand... :wink:

[mav Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close mav]

I agree with everything Billy has written and I would like to add that although the draft legislation specifies that a child must be in a rearward facing capsule/seat up to 6 months of age there is definite evidence to support that a child should not be turned to face the forward direction until after 12 months of age. It has to do with the ability of the spine in infants to stretch further than the spinal column can. Hence in a forward facing seat in a head on colision the forces that come into play on the spine can cause it to stretch but the spinal column cannot match it and so there is the possibility of the spinal column snapping causing instant paralysis.

I am not a doctor but I have read many papers written on this when I was researching the right time to turn my children from rearward to forward facing. My take on it is that it is better to err on the side of caution and keep the child facing to the rear until after 12 months of age.

[Chuck Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck]

The old 90 had 4 restraint points but then I guess thats progress....

[Billy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Billy]

Cheers guys.

Mav I agree with you in terms of keeping babies rear-ward facing for as long as possible (Billy's DW here again) and I did the same pretty much in terms of asking around, when I found that by the weight limits on the seat, I was meant to turn our (then) youngest, but I wanted to keep him rearward facing as long as possible.

So I read, phoned up Kidsafe (WA info line on child safety) etc etc and they said that yes it is best to keep babies rearward facing for as long as possible so long as they meet the weight requirements for the seat. In an accident, that seat is rated only to to that weight limit for that position.

Which can be very annoying when you have a baby who's bigger than average (as we did at the time) and you want to keep them rearward facing, but the seat weight limit doesn't assist you in doing so.
I guess it comes into it when researching your first purchase of the baby seat, the max kg it will take rearward facing, as some take more weight in that position than others. Hard though if it's your first child and never enters your mind that it could be an issue huh, or with subsequent children using the same seat, who are bigger/smaller than their siblings.

Grandeman yep it might have to be an option for us - as much as I prefer the size of the Prado (although am frequently told the Cruiser isn't that much bigger lol)... if we need the anchor pts then we'll have to look at it and see what it's got. That a Tarago only has 2 anchor pts is just ridiculous!

Chuck I wonder why they reduced the number - allow for more flexibility in design features?

David best of luck in finding an answer for your Family.
Cheers

[Grandeman Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Grandeman]

I wonder why they reduced the number

Cost cutting is my bet - probably saved fifty cents multiplied by a squillion cars which works out to big bucks... :evil:

[SSbaby Member Find all posts View Profile Close SSbaby]

The only vehicle that I've come across with 5 anchorage points standard is the Honda Odyssey. The thing I don't like about this vehicle is that all (5) of the anchorage points are located just fore of the tailgate (that's 3 under the roof and 2 above the spare wheel well).

Therefore the children seated in the 2nd row have to have a belt reel long enough to be anchored to the rear of the vehicle. Problem being, the children seated in 3rd row would be potentially obstructed by the belt reels spearing down toward the children seated in the second row. Not the most effective of designs IMO.

Hope that makes sense!

[Guest Close Guest]

Re:

The only vehicle that I've come across with 5 anchorage points standard is the Honda Odyssey.

You can add the Territory to the list. The 3rd row seat has anchorage points at the bottom of the boot, near the boot opening.

[Steptoe Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steptoe]

Re: 3rd row child restraints

Add the Mitsubishi Grandis, and I think the Kia Grand Carnival to the list as well (actually I think the Grand Carnival has 6).

A couple of years ago (Pre 4WD) we were looking to have a 3rd row seat fitted to our camry wagon. When we looked into it we were told that there were no problems putting a 3rd row seat in, BUT if there were any child seats in the 2nd row it would be illegal to seat anyone in the 3rd row. This was because the restraint anchor points in the camry wagon are in the roof, right at the back, and if the restraint strap goes from the seat to the roof, it is illegal (and dangerous) to sit anyone behind it. We had to end up buying a Commodore Wagon as the anchor points are in the floor, then have the 3rd row seat fitted. By the sound of SSBaby's description of the Odyssey, it will suffer from the same problem, so while it has 5 anchor points, you cant use them all.

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: 3rd row child restraints

Add the Mitsubishi Grandis, and I think the Kia Grand Carnival to the list as well (actually I think the Grand Carnival has 6)

Didn't know that one. From Googling, the Grand carnival has 5 http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&r ... arch&meta=

But I'm not giving up the Prado. Our 4th is coming and our eldest is about to turn 7.

[Kev & Jas Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kev & Jas]

Re: 3rd row child restraints

For us, we need child restraints in our Prado up until children are 32/34kgs (depending on which H harness you're using) and for our guys, this will be a little while off apart from the eldest.

Well I have been wondering about this issue too. We currently only have 2 kids but we do want more. :shock: :shock: damb shame about that..
It’s good to know that all we need to do is space the kids out a bit more. :wink:

seriously though our daughter out grew her 26kg or 0-4 child restraint at nearly 3. We had an adjustable booster seat however she out grew that in height & weight too, we were looking high and low for something that would take her. she has hovered around 28 kgs for the last 18 months, when she gets sick with her health issues she can drop weight very quickly. We ended up finding one of the only things available was a harness that plugs into the restraint anchor point and then goes over the torso and the seatbelt through near her stomach. I have herd many horror stories of kids being decapitated by seat belts that arn't designed for them. This is why we chose to find something suitable. The harness does to 32kg I think. And until she reaches that, she will be in a safety harness.

I think the draft legislation's for child restraints are a good idea.

My long winded point is when we have more kids hopefully the eldest will be out of the harness by the time we have to 4th one as I don't want to give up my Prado.

I love it! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Jas

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: 3rd row child restraints

I was over at Whirlpool Forums and someone linked to a pic of a crab bar for the 3rd row of the Tarago. I then found that the same company do pigtails for the Prado as well.
http://www.barryanaccessory.com.au/Web% ... ge%201.JPG

[BiLLz0r Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close BiLLz0r]

I know this thread is really old but stubbled across it whilst searching for something else. Our 120 has 2 3rd row anchors added to the floor just inside the rear door and has a mod plate for it in the engine bay. The previous owner added it. We've never used them and never will but thought I'd share anyway.