When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

[David See Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David See]

Hi all, has been a while since my last visit here.

About 6 weeks ago my wife came to grief at an intersection, running up the back of another car. That experience was bad enough (thankfully she was ok and the kids weren't with her)...but her confidence was shattered and the Prado sustained about $12k worth of damage to the front end.

After having the car sit at the repairers for three weeks without being touched because someone there forgot to submit the correct paperwork to the insurer, we finally got he car back last week.

Now I have always been paranoid about getting a car back with a bad repair and I am generally pretty particular with my cars, so with every smash-repairer experience I have had, I go over the car with a fine-toothed comb before accepting it. I have to say there has never been a time when I have been completely satisfied.

This time, the car was being detailed when we turned up to pick it up so we sat around for an hour waiting. Then, the car came was driven out of the main shed and parked next to us, idling. It sounded rough, kicked and coughed and then just stopped. The guy delivering the car to us took no notice, but it was blatantly obvious something was wrong. I tried to start it, nothing. Not even a click.

On advising the guy, he looked dismayed, walked off and got a jump-starting device....on his return, he said "we have had this on charge all night", The car started, idled roughly and stopped again. They guy removed the battery, cleaned the terminals, no joy. Off to get a new battery for us, which was good.

With the new battery in place, the car started perfectly and idled properly. All good. They left us with the car.

While the bonnet was opened dealing with the battery, I noticed the spray marks where they had repaired each guard and the repair had gone into the firewall area. It looked really rough as you could imagine because a 5 year old car firewall is pretty dirty and the repair, of course, looks brand new. Anyone looking under the bonnet will instantly see the car has been repaired. There was also over-spray on the grommets in the firewall. Just a rough job, in my opinion. They could have at least cleaned down the firewall before doing the repairs, seeing the engine was out.

Other issues included a missing cover plug from the assist handle on the passenger side front, passenger side front window not working from the driver's door control and two other unrelated minor repairs to the duco not being done as requested while in there. I have also noticed they have re-used the fog lights that were scratched in the accident. Annoying.

But the main annoyance is the paint match.

I thought it was perfect looking at the front guard to front door match, until I realised they had sprayed the driver's door, too. The passenger side of the car match seems ok, but the driver's side is a different story. The difference between the driver's door and the passenger door is not huge, but enough to see there has been a repair. The original white has a "pinkish" look to it and the new paint is really WHITE. Now I am no paint technician, but can't they still "blow" some paint into the next panel to reduce the effect? Cutting off at a straight line is always dangerous, in my mind.

Anyway, I pointed it out and they all ran around looking miffed as if there was something wrong with me and saying "but if you look at the rest of the car, all the panels are different" and "it must be the light" and "maybe the old paint needs a buff", well, ok, that might be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that the driver's door and the passenger's door it adjoins are different whites.

I have never enjoyed the event of having a car repaired for these reasons. As if the prang isn't bad enough in the first place. I just thought techniques and technology wouldn't allow this kind of thing to happen these days.

Not sure if I can be bothered taking it back yet.

DS

[HGMonaro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close HGMonaro]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

...but can't they still "blow" some paint into the next panel to reduce the effect? Cutting off at a straight line is always dangerous, in my mind.

from my limited experience, this is what's usually done to blend new and old. Had a little bump repaired on my dark blue HSV and they painted the damaged door plus half the rear door and some the front guard. Can't see any evidence and in fact I'd forgotten about it until reading your post.

Not sure if I can be bothered taking it back yet.
DS

if it was an insurance job, you need to get them involved! Good luck!

Cheers, Nige

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Have you contacted Consumer Affairs or the NRMA for some legal advice? Also you should contact your insurer.

Mick

[David See Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David See]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

I hadn't even contacted the repairer about it yet...I wasn't wanting to look like a fussy winger. I wanted to leave myself a cool off period so it might not seem so important. You know, after a while you find something else to occupy your mind with. The actual paint job is excellent - just a shame it doesn't match!

I think the firewall paint job is ultra-slack. Painting new white paint over old without cleaning the firewall off first just blew my mind when I saw it. So obvious.

I will make note of the issues, email them and sit on it for a while to see if I am not so concerned in a few weeks.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Painting new white paint over old without cleaning the firewall off first just blew my mind when I saw it. So obvious.

Obvious repairs like this are going to kill your resale value big time :!:

I would have thought a quality repair would be invisible to the untrained eye....

Mick

[David See Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David See]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Well, I am pretty particular, but I am sure there are things these guys do that they hope will go unnoticed (like using parts only slightly damaged in the accident) or that you just "can't be bothered" to chase it up.

They are this area's major repairers, too, always touting their unique "advanced" repair system and workshop.

[David See Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David See]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Here are some shots of the repairs.

After examining the photos, I am even more horrified of the repair to the engine bay section to the firewall on the driver's side. Notice the rough join of the inner guard to the section holding the strut arm, compared to the passenger's side. ALso notice the rough edge of the paint to the left of the air conditioning sticker.

Look, I accept the car has to be repaired after an accident, but doesn't it have to end up looking like it HASN'T been in an accident?

Not sure if you can tell the difference in the paint colour on the doors in these pics, either.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Get in touch with your insurance company, tell them you aren't happy and ask for the assessor to look at the car. See what he/she says before you go back to the painter.

[Madkore Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Madkore]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Other issues included passenger side front window not working from the driver's door control.

DS

Hi David,

This is likely because they changed the batteries and can easily be fixed. Just try putting the window completely down and then completely up from the passenger door itself, then try again on the driver's controls.

Sorry, but I can't help you with the paint work

[bevwone Member Find all posts View Profile Close bevwone]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

David,

I would talk to the insurance company first.

Most insurance companies offer guarantee's from 3 years to life on the workmanship completed by the crash shop.

Contact them and advise them you are not happy with quality of the job. They should be on your side as they have just shelled out 12K to fix the car and offer the guarantee on the work. Most insurance assessors are from the trade and know what to look for.

Crash repairers are different in their mindset. The first Shop I worked at as a young apprentice wanted the car fixed as quickly as possible and did not care how many times it came back/recalled after. This was because when the car was fixed the insurance company pays the bill, it did not matter that it kept coming back angering the owner. The last shop I worked at actually cared about the quality and it would not leave the shop until it was a good job, and got upset when a customer had to return the vehicle.

As for the quality of the repairs shown in the photo:
Matching paint is almost an art form and requires training. Good painters are able to do this easily. A person with an untrained eye should not be able to pick the difference; and if you can (as you said), then it is not good enough.
As for the blending I am working on memory here, block colours such as white do not have a clear coat and are generally painted to the edge of the panel. Metallic paints have a clear coat and because of this they blend the colour in the panel and paint the whole panel with the clear coat. This makes matching block colours harder.
Cars are now painted in 2pac. They do not fade as the old thinner based paints as used on Commodores up to and including VN's. They should not mention this as an issue.
I did not look, but if yours is a Grande the white is different. It is a paint with a pearl finish that changes colour in different light. I think they go from a yellow tinge at one angle to a blue tinge at another. This should not be an issue either, the colours from one panel to another still should look the same from the same angle. Good painters will be able to recreate the pearl in the paint.

It is hard to see but the panel job on the LHS looks okay. The problem with painting inside a engine bay, costs provided by the insurance company will not include removing the block so they are unable to remove everything prior to painting. But if they have blended the paint on the firewall over the sticker/plate and onto a dirty firewall (as it looks), this is atrocious and the paint will not stick and peel from the firewall. Painting over sticker/plates is dodgy and lazy.

The job on the RHS looks bad. Other than the hard paint edge that does not follow the sticker and overspray on the grommet, the actual repair looks terrible. The photo but is looks as if the panel holding the bonnet strut has been knocked around poorly, badly welded and not properly ground off and then slapped on with sealant trying to hide the poor repair.

If the quote included the fog lights etc and the repairer has not replaced them - the insurance company will be very keen to hear of this.

I would definitely approach the insurance company first. They offer the protection from dodgy repairs and can put pressure on the business if they do not comply.

This will effect resale value of the car if left like this. A person who knows their way around a car knows where to look for dodgy repairs. I know that just because a vehicle is repaired does not necessary mean it is worse off. Many quality repairs send the vehicle out in a better condition than it arrived in.

Hope this helps. As I said, I haven't picked up a hammer since 1995 or so, but the processes are still the same.

Bevan

[David See Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David See]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Thanks Bevan,

The Prado is a GXL so it is the block white.

I have to admit I had another look at the RHS repair under the bonnet and it doesn't look quote as bad in real life as it does in the photo. And I do accept that after a while there will be a layer of grime over this whole area, so it will look more normal. But it isn't as good as the LHS, which is clean and looks like new.

The rough finish near the air conditioning sticker is unacceptable, as is the fact that the firewall obviously wasn't cleaned before painting. The brown water/dirt spots you see on the firewall next to the fresh paint can be cleaned off with a simple wipe with a chamois. And why wouldn't they detail the engine bay so this was not so noticeable before delivery? Just makes it look like you have taken delivery of a fixed smashed car. There were also some marks in the paint that I had to polish out. There is also a bubble in one of the flares right next to the guard. The rubber behind each flare on the front guards is fitted differently on both sides.

These guys also forgot to fix two other unrelated things while the car was in there. It's a pain in the bum, because now it has to go back a second time to have those things fixed. The point was to have it all done while it was in there.

Hard to get things done properly these days.

[MUMSRIG Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MUMSRIG]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

There is something to be said about having insurance... The same could be said about the quality of repairs though.

They never ever seem to have a satisfactory outcome.

MUMSRIG goes in next week for rear repairs after getting snotted from behind again... Lucky for us it's only a bumper (at this stage) and a mates shop is doing the repair and the benefit of that is that he will treat our car as if it is his!!

Good Luck

Mitch

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

The under bonnet repair can be easily fixed by throwing in some choice mud and letting it set for a while then hosing it out. Do this a couple of times and you will never notice the difference. Most of my under bonnet is now in a variety of orangey-brown tints to match the countryside.

The outside is a different story where all can see the obvious difference in paint shading. I'd take it up with the repairer first and see what he can do about it. Chances are it was a junior apprentice who did the match up. If you get no joy with this man then I would contact my insurer.

Most of the repairers should be using an electronic sampling system which copies the original paint. When I did a home repair on my beige 98 Prado I found over a dozen different shades of the one factory colour. You can't just rely on the paint code as per the vehicle id/compliance plate.

You want to see the dodgy jobs we get on our fleet vehicles of which about 90% are white. It's all a matter of get them in quick and get them out quicker.

My brother was in the business some years ago when he did his spray paint trade. He got sick of doing quick and dodgy repairs that he got his own business repairing m/cycle fairings and musical drums.

[David See Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David See]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Bushbasher - good advice. I had thought that after a while the difference (with some mud on it) would not be as noticeable.

The outside is another story and in fact where they sprayed into the door opening - where the new paint meets the old near where the door sealing rubber sits against the frame - it is blatantly obvious the paints are two completely different whites. The original has a yellow-ish tinge to it where the new is a very brilliant white.

The bolts that hold the new guards on have not been brush-touched after being installed, either. The job would have been more acceptable if they bad blown some of the new paint into the rear door as well. At least the difference wouldn't have been so noticeable as ending at the door edge.

This car was in the repairer for 5 weeks. They indeed had plenty of time to get it right.

[babs Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close babs]

Re: When white just isn't white and other smash repair issues

Mate,

My wife has a fascination with reversing into things..........so far she has managed it with every vehicle we have owned together :evil: :evil:

When in Sydney, she tried to move a pole that unfortunately was not movable......rear bar destroyed

The truck was put in for repair and when they fitted the replacement rear bar, they had cut the hole for the tow bar 2 inches too far to the left, so they decided to "squeeze" the bar around the tongue of the towbar.......

My wife accepted it as she didnt really notice...until she got home....shit hit the fan.....truck went back.. they simply tried to widen the hole on each side of the bar......which was now 6 inches and growing....and give it back.

Unfortunately I was overseas with work at the time and was getting random emails about the problem...but I am telling you....wind up the wife and send her in :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

They put a new bar on and buffed the entire car for her trouble......


Dont let them walk over you.. Be polite first off and if that doesnt work....go to the next level