National Modification Laws

[andrewh Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close andrewh]

There have been murmers around for a few years now about proposed National Modification Laws, but things seem to be heating up now and the introduction seems imminent ... in the next few months. There are a few articles being written in the mags, but the current issue 135 of the 4WD Action seems to spell things out well.

Until everything is finalised we can't know how the laws will affect us for sure, but it seems that we will be limited to a choice between a 50mm suspension lift, OR the same size increase in tyres, as long as you don't have electronic stability control. If you have electronics, NOTHING will be allowed. This worries me as I have stabilty control. It seems crazy that they would create such a huge dissincentive to getting stability control on 4WDs. But this seems to be the way they are headed.

There is a suggestion that if the vehicle has an engineering certificate prior to the laws becoming effective, it will continue to be legal under the new laws. While engineering certificates will continue to be an option under the new laws, they will be much harder to get and it seems they will be impossible for suspension and tyre mods to 4WD's with stability control.

It isn't easy to find Victorian accredited engineers to talk to. I can't find any listing in the Yellow Pages or Vicroads.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: National Modification Laws

Hi Andrewh,

I spoke to David at Guests 4x4 today about this very issue. He has been talking to someone that is on one of the
panels providing input to the goverment. He has indicated there is a long way to go before any descisions are made,
apparently they are still doing testing to see if raising a vechicle does affect the VSC etc.
(Grande has variable ride height and VSC)

He says he wouldn't do anything yet as it will probably be quite awhile before any recommendations are
made and then they have to get all the states to aggree.

He also indicated might not be wise to seek to have your vehicle certified by an engineer as that might open
up another whole can of worms as to any other mods you have done, driving lights, draws etc.

So seems sit tight and see what happens next is the advice.

Cheers

LeighW

[George_M Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close George_M]

Re: National Modification Laws

There seems tro have been some announcements in New South Wales recently. I'm not sure where this fits in with the national review.

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/....aspx%3fpn%3d1

[andrewh Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close andrewh]

Re: National Modification Laws

Good information Leigh. Your probably right about the perils of an engineering report.

I guess I'm always cautious about the Vic government when it's in discussions with advisory bodies. They seem to like ignoring those bodies in the end and jumping in early with legislation to gzump any opposition.

Thanks for your link George. This suggests that NSW has moved already and adds weight to other views that the states will act soon.

Where to from here? I guess wait and see, but I may regret it.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: National Modification Laws

Unless your ride is something extremely different to the norm, ie 30 inch lift, 50 inch tyres, twin turbos, suicide doors, etc that will attract the attention of the enforcement officers i don't think there is too much to worry about. The trend when introducing changes to legislation such as that proposed usually has an "cut-off" or implementation date such that vehicles built prior to the said date are not affected by the changes.

An example is with the seat-belt requirements for passenger buses. Here in WA there was such an outcry from operators that the government modified the regulations so that only newly licenced vehicles had to comply.

On the other hand there was the total ban on 5 post bull bars like those silly cowboys hang off their Falcon and Commodore utes. But you still see some getting around.

[George_M Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close George_M]

Re: National Modification Laws

Unless your ride is something extremely different to the norm, ie 30 inch lift, 50 inch tyres, twin turbos, suicide doors, etc that will attract the attention of the enforcement officers i don't think there is too much to worry about. The trend when introducing changes to legislation such as that proposed usually has an "cut-off" or implementation date such that vehicles built prior to the said date are not affected by the changes.

Too true Bushie. I'm not at all concerned about Mr Plod, as he usually has something better to do that hassle me in my white, conservative looking Prado.

What concerns me is how the the insurance companies will react to a change of this magnitude. The proposed changes substantially alter the defination of what is, and is not, roadworthy; as opposed to an additional safety feature such as seatbelts.

George_M

[Guest Close Guest]

Re: National Modification Laws

I agree with george_m, the big concern is insurance, they'll take the attitude if it
is not considered roadworthy then they won't pay!

Cheers

LeighW

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: National Modification Laws

The way I see it there are a few possible outcomes if you have a prang:

1. The car is a write-off. Insurance company sends their own assessor who spots all the major modifications and says "sorry fella, you didn't tell us about those mods and some of them are not approved. You loose."

2. The car is damaged. You get your two or three quotes from the panel beater who is more than happy to fix your car and charge it all back to the insurance company. Unless his quote reads like : remove and replace 15inch hydraulic remote suspension lift system $4,500, replace titanium Mack truck bull bar $7,000, etc - how will the insurance company know?

3. Somebody dies or is seriously injured in the crash and the police major crash investigators come out and the qualified engineer goes over your car. Probably not a problem unless the insurance company want to see the report.

My insurance company knows about the mods and accessories, that way they are all covered.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: National Modification Laws

3. Somebody dies or is seriously injured in the crash and the police major crash investigators come out and the qualified engineer goes over your car. Probably not a problem unless the insurance company want to see the report.

Things might get interesting if your un-roadworthy modifications are found to have caused/contributed to any death though... I'd be thinking it's not your insurance you'd have to worry about anymore but some heat from Mr Plod :?:


Mick

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

Re: National Modification Laws

I was speaking from the insurance angle.

There was a single car prang here in WA a couple of years ago involving an asian student who crashed his highly modified Jap coupe at speed, killing his girl friend. His defence was that the highly modified engine got the throttle stuck resulting in the crash. They couldn't prove it either way so he got a big discount on his sentence. So the modifications, albeit illegal, worked to his advantage.

Anyway all they will say is that the modifications may have contributed to the crash. Unless they build an identical vehicle with the same mods and crash it under the same conditions they will never be 100% sure.

And if you die then it's not your problem.

[09PradoGXL Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 09PradoGXL]

Re: National Modification Laws

2. The car is damaged. You get your two or three quotes from the panel beater who is more than happy to fix your car and charge it all back to the insurance company. Unless his quote reads like : remove and replace 15inch hydraulic remote suspension lift system $4,500, replace titanium Mack truck bull bar $7,000, etc - how will the insurance company know?

With QBE, an assessor came out to view my car as one of the panel beater quotes was over $1500. All for a bent rear bumper and broken reflector.
But I am not sure if the $1500 limit is relative to the amount of reported damage.

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

Re: National Modification Laws

I have spent the morning trawling the RTA website and sites re. the national modification laws. Neither make any real mention of traction and stability controlled vehicles like my 2005 VX so maybe ,despite the minister's press release, there is hope for people like me who were planning a 50mm lift for next year. What I did find were the actual specs for Prados. They measure from the centre of the wheel to the bottom of the wheel arch and should be: 522mm front and 558 rear with a 205 mm ground clearance [measured where????]
Mine,at 60000km measures 512 front and 540/530 rear but with 205 mm at the sump ground clearance.[go figure]
The question that many of us will now have to address is does anyone do standard height springs but with higher rates like the usual 50mm lift ones? [OR maybe 25mm higher to fudge a bit ]and then match these to much better shocks like billies or OME. This would get around eng. certificates and insurance hassles. Tie this in with 275/65 BFG tyres and you could be up 25-30 mm on clearance legally on what your sagged car has. Any thoughts? BTW the 'Overlander forum " has heaps on this issue too. Don't forget to send emails to that dill Daly today! Neil

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

Re: National Modification Laws

Further thoughts.....other than extreme rock hopping which I usually don't do and probably lots of us don't do,is the standard height suspension so bad ie will uprated springs and shocks to suit heavier loads suit most of us most of the time? Where will we get caught out without that extra 25-50mm? Neil

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

Re: National Modification Laws

Dig around in this link http://ols2.rta.nsw.gov.au/rvd/welcome.do Go to the search on the left and put in toyota , landcruiser, prado, year model

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

Re: National Modification Laws

Check this out NSW guys-you have until next Friday according to P 5 and what I was told by RTA today. Mine is being done next week! What they also told me is if at any stage your car goes out of rego for> 3 months or for any other reason needs a blue slip you WILL need an engineer's report but other than that you "should" be ok if you carry the receipt showing date of installation before 31/7/09 so long as it has the VIN or rego no. on the receipt.http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/ ... y-2009.pdf Neil