Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

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I'm looking to save a bit here and there and was wondering if the 150's suspension will fit the 120? I am interested in doing the front suspension and leaving the Grande's airbags in the rear but tweak the height settings a bit. I will also replace the rear shocks.

I have read this thread which talks about some of the differences. Just wondering if there were any further confirmation of the differences or any further information.

My main aim is to stiffen up the Grande's roly poly cornering and get a small lift at the same time. It doesn't have to be the full 2" lift.

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Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

Some measurements I have taken:

My Grande's factory suspension height measurements:

My Grande's factory suspension height measurements:
High setting
LF = 740   RF = 735
LR = 830   RR = 825
Normal setting
LF = 740   RF = 735
LR = 783   RR = 780
Low setting
LF = 738   RF = 736
LR = 748   RR = 746

Struts and shocks
               120     150     120     150
               Strut   Strut   Shock   Shock
Extended       545     555     575     574
Compressed     433     432     356     365
Eye dia.       14.2    14.3    19.2    19.2
Eye length     39.2    41.3    45.3    45.3
Pin dia.       12      12      12      14
Pin length     39.4    38      46.4    55.7

Front and rear coils
               120           150           120             150
               Front         Front         Rear            Rear
Free length    365           346           377             373
Outside diam   110           111           160             163
Wire diam      17            17            15              14
No. of turns   8             7             5.5             5.5
Spring rate    146kN/m       164kN/m       47.8kN/m        25.3kN/m
               819.4lb/in    926.1lb/in    270.2lbs/in    142.7lb/in

Many thanks to:

• switched for supplying the 120 suspension components for measurement[/*:m:dj2pto78]
• DougB for measuring up the 150 rear coil[/*:m:dj2pto78]

[new2prados Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close new2prados]

Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

I can tell you now, dont do it. I tried the same thing. Thankfully I only did the rear springs but it ended up dropping the rear by 20mm. I was under the impression from the information given by a suspension shop that it would not change the ride height, so bought some off ebay (that person is also a PPer, but not their fault they were actually a great seller). Long story short, when i put the rear springs in and saw the drop they came back out again. Now saving the $$$ for a set of King springs and kyb shocks.

I am not sure why they dont work, as all lift kits for the 150 are the same springs for a 120 but in my opinion hold off and save yr $$$.

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Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

I can tell you now, dont do it. I tried the same thing. Thankfully I only did the rear springs but it ended up dropping the rear by 20mm. I was under the impression from the information given by a suspension shop that it would not change the ride height, so bought some off ebay (that person is also a PPer, but not their fault they were actually a great seller). Long story short, when i put the rear springs in and saw the drop they came back out again. Now saving the $$$ for a set of King springs and kyb shocks.

I am not sure why they dont work, as all lift kits for the 150 are the same springs for a 120 but in my opinion hold off and save yr $$$.

That is probably because the rear coil of the 150 has a lower spring rate than the 120. I won't be swapping out the rear coil as mine is a Grande and I am maintaining the airbags in the rear.

Further to my fact finding mission, I found the following:

• the extended length of the Bilstein shocks and struts are almost identical to the 150. I would have thought that the 3rd party shock would be longer to accommodate the raised springs.[/*:m:1m2h6xee]
• the length of the 150 front coil is shorter than the 120 front coil by ~20mm[/*:m:1m2h6xee]
• the 150 front coil is stiffer (150 has more weight over the front wheels ???)[/*:m:1m2h6xee]
• the 120 rear coil is stiffer (120 has bigger fuel tank ???)[/*:m:1m2h6xee]
• the strut are pretty much identical except the 150 is longer by 10mm[/*:m:1m2h6xee]
• the rear shock on the 150 has a larger diameter pin (14 vs 12mm) and the pin is longer (55.7 vs 46.4)[/*:m:1m2h6xee]
• both the strut and shock of the 150 have a larger outer diameter (better fade resistance ???)[/*:m:1m2h6xee]

The mission continues ......

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

The mission continues ......

You certainly are a man on a mission!

What you need is a kind south aussie or other, who has a 150, who has fitted an aftermarket kit to their own and who would generously offer there standard kit for a trial period... ?

Any takers?

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Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

I already have the 150 standard kit courtesy of TJM.

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Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

Further to my data gathering exercise, I found the following specs for the various 120 suspension components as offered by the popular 3rd party companies. In the table below, the spring rate for the 120 and 150 were calculated using the measurements I took off the actual springs. The rest is data I obtained from PP or via emails to manufacturers/retailers.

Front Coil          Free length   Spring rate
                    mm            lb/in
Prado    120        365           624
Prado    150        346           706
OME      883        375           590
OME      884        390           590
OME      885        395           590
King     KTFR-101   375           660
King     KTFR101HD  375           800
Lovells  TFS-118    345           799
Lovells  TFR-118    360           799
Ironman  TOY055B    380           672
Ironman  TOY055C    373           834

Rear Coil           Free length   Spring rate
                    mm            lb/in
Prado    120        377           270
Prado    150        373           143
OME      895        390           260
OME      896        390           318
OME      897        390           387
King     KTRR-102   390           260
Lovells  TRS-119    380           261
Lovells  TRR-119    400           261
Ironman  TOY056B    392           283
Ironman  TOY056C    392           356

Front Shock         Open          Close
                    mm            mm
Prado    120        545           433
Prado    150        555           432
OME                 543           405
Bilstein BE5-A712   552           427
Toughdog BM404600   564           425
Ironman  12710GR    540           408

Rear Shock          Open          Close
                    mm            mm
Prado    120        575           356
Prado    150        574           365
OME                 577           353
Bilstein BE5-A713   580           366	
Toughdog BM401116   550           360
Ironman  12682GR    618           373

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Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

Good work Andrew, I'm on a similar mission with looking at suspension options for my Grande and those specifications are very usefull.

I've never considered using 150 series suspension components on my Grande; I'm curious as to what would be the advantages of doing it?

By the way, I finally got around to fitting my spare wheel spacers, thanks. 8)

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Re: Can a 150 suspension fit a 120?

I read that the shocks have longer travel and because the 150 is heavier, I thought that it would improve the 120's height and handling. However, I don't think it would be as good as a proper 3rd party suspension kit.

With the Grande, the cheapest way for a lift is to swap out the front springs and tweak the rear. However, the front struts can top out with the raised springs. So if the 150's struts are longer, it is a cheap way to raise the front without buying 3rd party struts.

This evening, I started looking at the rear shocks as I suspected that the 150 rear shocks will not fit. And it is now confirmed that the tophat washer that goes just under the chassis is too big in diameter to fit into the hole of a 120 chassis. Will add some pics later to demonstrate what I mean.

The fronts are next but my calculations show that the 150 coils are not long enough and therefore will not give enough lift despite being stiffer. It's got to do with spring preload. The 150 struts however should fit, but the question is whether an extra 10mm of travel is better than Grande's struts with the adjustable damping rate. It really depends on the springs that go in. The spring must match the travel of the struts.

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I have also wondered whether or not it's worthwhile losing the TEMS (Toyota Electronic Modulated Suspension) function and have decided that it would only be worthwhile if it was upgraded to a better strut, like a Bilstein. I also enquired about having the TEMS struts rebuilt, but the rebuilders won't touch them and Toyota want $560 EACH for replacement units! Are the 150 struts cheaper than aftermarket?

As far as just swapping out the front springs are concerned, it looks like the OME 883 are the closest match, being only slightly longer than standard and similar rate. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the Lovells TFS-118 is a standard height spring, while the TFR-118 is raised?

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As far as just swapping out the front springs are concerned, it looks like the OME 883 are the closest match, being only slightly longer than standard and similar rate.

I take that back, according to the specs the OME 883 is actually a bit softer than factory, so may not cure the roly poly handling. Plus ARB quoted me $252 for a pair of OME 883 springs, a bit too exxy I think.

After researching front springs further, I found that you can get a pair of Lovells TFS-118 or TFR-118 for $190 form here: http://www.bushskinz4x4.com.au/index.php?cPath=2_26_28
The higher spring rate will help handling and I am led to believe that while the TFS-118 is a "standard height" spring, it actually gives a small lift of about 20-25mm, where the TFR-118 is a "raised heght" spring and gives a 40mm lift. Both are "standard duty".

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Peter,

You'll have to take my 120/150 spring rates with a grain of salt. The spring rates were calculated based on my measurements. I do not know what the actual material is but used a calculator from a website for generic spring steel. So although the spring rates have been posted up, you can't compare the 120/150 spring rates with that of 3rd party manufacturers.

All I can do now is install the springs and do a comparison.

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In addition, missing Bilstein specs are:

Bilstein BE5-A712 front strut 552mm open 427mm close
Bilstein BE5-A713 rear shock 580mm open 366mm close