Suspension Database

Done!

[Whitey]

Hey amts,

Another rear shock to add, Koni 88-1689, 372-612mm (includes shroud).

This is an 80 series Landcruiser shock which some may prefer to the short 90 series RAIDS.

Best

Mark

No problems. Thanks for the update.

[Whitey]

Hey amts,

Some more corrections for the database;

1. 150 series front coil = 345mm (measured).

2. 150 series rear coil = 375mm (measured).

3. All Ridepro coils need their spring rates corrected so they read the same as their Dobinson equivalents.

4. In the database there are some Bilsteins struts and shocks that have closed-open lengths WITHOUT the shroud spacer, such as the 712, and there are some WITH the shroud spacer, such as D563.

For clarification;

BE5-A712 427-552mm (ring eye center to shaft flange) 435-560mm (including 8mm shroud spacer)

BE5-D563 427-567mm (ring eye center to shaft flange) 435-575mm (including 8mm shroud spacer)

5. Some Bilstein lengths are incorrect;

24-238762 425-570mm (including 8mm shroud spacer/hand measured)

24-217897 380-610mm (including 8mm shroud spacer/hand measured)

BE5-A715
24-238830 370-587mm (ring eye center to shaft flange) 378-595mm (including 8mm shroud spacer)

B146-1478S 380-591mm (ring eye center to shaft flange) 388-599mm (including 8mm shroud spacer)
B146-1478LT (yet to be determined)

6. I am guessing the 5100 series lengths quoted include the shroud.

7. Minor typo for Dob"o"nsons MR59-50701 rear shock, change "o" to "i".

I think it's better to quote all the closed-open lengths as shroud inclusive measurements, as this is how most will run their struts/shocks.

Some manufacturers do not supply a shroud with their struts, such as the Koni 88-1712 strut, so its quoted lengths are ring eye center to flange.

Best

Mark

OK. Any part numbers available?

[Whitey]

Hey amts,

Could you add the 8-way adjustable Profenders from Superior Engineering into the database;

Front strut 435-573mm

Rear shock 395-650mm

Best

Mark

[Joshy]

What lift are you running and how much droop did you end up with?

Ok i might just rotate it to see if i can stop it until i get UCA's.

I didn't actually measure the droop, but ride height is uneven. I'll have to tweak it a little tomorrow, as well as where i've run the remote resi. Drivers side was 810mm and passenger was 823m. I was aiming for 815mm.

I wasn't aware that you could run a standard coil with the Profenders. Have Superior supplied you with a custom made coil seat and cap?

I think you're thinking of these:
https://www.superiorengineering.com....593?filter=239


When i only have these:
https://www.superiorengineering.com....537?filter=239

[Whitey]

Strut as mentioned is profender 2-5inch lift. Measures 435mm closed 573mm open.

Hey again Joshy,

I wasn't aware that you could run a standard coil with the Profenders. Have Superior supplied you with a custom made coil seat and cap?

What lift are you running and how much droop did you end up with?

Best

Mark

[Whitey]

I finished off installing the struts this evening. But I've found that unfortunately the UCA just contacts the coil on full droop now. Great excuse for new UCA's but not what I was hoping for. Is this common? Strut as mentioned is profender 2-5inch lift. Measures 435mm closed 573mm open.

Hey Joshy,

Yep it's a common problem when running struts out past 570mm.

My front strut is 570mm exactly, and I have the same problem.

You can get around it by rotating the coil until the arm fits snugly in between 2 coils. I've done this and don't have any more contact, although I'm sure the ball joint is probably either bound or very close to binding inside the boot.

Best

Mark

[Joshy]

I finished off installing the struts this evening. But I've found that unfortunately the UCA just contacts the coil on full droop now. Great excuse for new UCA's but not what I was hoping for. Is this common? Strut as mentioned is profender 2-5inch lift. Measures 435mm closed 573mm open.

[Whitey]

I'm going to use Profender in the rear as well with either a 3inch (395mm closed, 650mm open) or 4inch (405mm closed, 670mm open. Most likely the 3inch will work best. I dont want to space bumps more than i have to as i don't want to lose much up travel. Id also have to work out something with the sway bars and possibly get superior lcas as well.

Hey Joshy,

I just measured the rear open length at which the lower trailing arm will bind on the axle housing, at 700mm;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l-measurements

If you're planning on running a 650 or 670mm shock without the sway bar, you wouldn't need the offset Superior arms.

If you want to keep the sway bar in, the maximum link extension is about 30mm before the link binds on the lower trailing arm. With the longer links, I'm not sure what open length the sway bar will bind at, but I'll measure it this weekend as I'm putting in new rear coils.

I'm guessing you won't get all of the extra 30mm back, so the sway bar will prolly bind at less than 615 + 30 = 645mm. This won't be enough to run the 650mm shock. You definitely want the shocks to top out before the sway bar.

See my thread on extended links here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...imum-extension

The contact point of the link along the lower trailing arm is about 240mm from the front bush center.

If all you need is about 30 + 10mm extra on the sway bar, then the offset Superior arms may get you there, as they will sit lower than the factory arms...how much lower below the link I couldn't say unless I put one in!

I'm trying to solve this problem as well, as my new coils will give an extra 1" lift which I will lose in droop, so I plan to recover it with a longer shock. I currently run a 618mm open length Durashock....which I can use a longer shaft in to get out past 618 + 25 = 643mm, so in the same territory you're trying to reach.

Tricky geometry to get right with keeping the sway bar in!

Keep us posted about how you go with your rear end setup.

Best

Mark

[Joshy]

Yeah I'll measure the brake lines up when I'm under there playing with the rear. Haven't gotten to that yet... I only got one side done on the front and half way through the second and got interrupted. Should get it completed tomorrow, then have a play with the rear.

I had a look at the other thread, and now I'm glad i didn't go for the coilover. I looked at them but they didn't have a suitable spring for the weight I have over the front. I got the 2-4inch strut, adjustable with remote res, and kept my dobinsons (can't remember what model, but they'lll have to be upgraded as well when i get my second battery installed and hopefully winch in the not too distant future). But now you've mentioned it i'll make sure it doesn't bind on droop.

[Whitey]

Nah i definitely didn't disconnect brake lines. I currently have tough dog 80 series shocks that measure 620 open and there's still heaps left in the brake lines. They possibly change with models? I have an 08 1KD GXL.

went with Profender after much thought

Hey Joshy,

That's interesting. I've got an 06 petrol GXL, and my rear brake lines bind right in between 610-615mm. Any chance you could measure the length of your lines while you're underneath?

Just one thing to watch out for on the Profender front struts is coil bind, see the photos in post #12 in this thread;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado-120-IFS

I couldn't believe the poor bloke was getting coil bind until I saw those photos!

I don't know if they're still like that, but you may wanna speak with Superior about it and get the front coils changed to avoid this!

Keep us posted about how your install goes!

Best

Mark

[Joshy]

Hi Mark,

Id completely forgotten id posted that. Wow, two years to get new shocks is hopeless!! I must only have had my lift in for less than a year at that point.

Nah i definitely didn't disconnect brake lines. I currently have tough dog 80 series shocks that measure 620 open and there's still heaps left in the brake lines. They possibly change with models? I have an 08 1KD GXL. I've got a new set up struts turn up today (went with Profender after much thought) so I'll measure up the rear again when I put the fronts in to make sure i got it right. I'm going to use Profender in the rear as well with either a 3inch (395mm closed, 650mm open) or 4inch (405mm closed, 670mm open). Most likely the 3inch will work best. I dont want to space bumps more than i have to as i don't want to lose much up travel. Id also have to work out something with the sway bars and possibly get superior lcas as well.

Thanks for the info on the closed lengths, i was curious as to how far the bump would compress. I'll keep it in mind when i work out how far i'll space my bumps. I should be putting my struts in over the weekend so i'll let you know what i find!

[Whitey]

Hey again Joshy,

I realised I didn't actually answer your question properly....what is the longest closed length without needing to space the bumpstops?

That's a difficult question to answer, as it comes down to how close you want to push things.

The closed length on the factory shock is 356mm, which leaves a bump gap of around 405-356 = 49mm, which corresponds roughly to the thickness of the bumpstop.

I'm running a 365-618mm shock at the moment, and I haven't spaced the bumpstop, so I've closed my bump gap down to around 40mm.

Keep in mind also that the top part of the bumpstop has a gap in it and can easily be torn off (about 10mm of the top part of the bumpstop).

I believe Toyota has engineered the bump safety shock travel gaps at the front and the back to equal the thickness of the bumpstops.

Assuming the worst case scenario of the bumpstop coming off, you then have to ask yourself do you prefer the diff housing to hit the chassis, or your shock to bump out?

Further assuming that you knew about the bumpstop coming off and you wanted to drive out safely, then you should make the closed length no shorter than around 365mm so the shock doesn't bump out.

So after all of that, I'm guessing the safest bet would be to space the bumpstops equal to the difference between the longer closed length of the shock you buy and 365mm. eg, if you want to run a 400mm closed length, then you should space the bumpstop by 400-365 = 35mm.

That's only if you wish to preserve the Toyota engineered safety margin...you could cut into this gap, but then you risk bumping out your shocks with a total bumpstop failure.

I know a lot of guys in the FJ blue room have discussed this in detail, and are running off the shelf MetalTech kits that get the shock open length down past 700mm, but they utilise a ridiculous 3" solid bumpstop spacer, and sacrifice a lot of bump travel. Many are complaining about constantly riding the bumpstops, so this kind of craziness may give awesome down travel in the rear, but I personally wouldn't try it.

Here is the 40 page thread from the blue room;

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forum...uspension.html

I guess the moral of this story is that if you wanna run a really long open length shock, then you should carry a spare set of bumpstops....just like you would carry any other suspension component if you are travelling in really remote country.

Best

Mark