Anyone got Kings KTFR-101HD springs fitted?

[AJ120]

Yes so 1 of my air bags has let go - as predicted!

Anyways, this was my first go at airbags and to be honest Im thinking they are a bit of a gimmick.
Airbags may be excellent for towing on bitumen, but when your on the tracks they seem too delicate and are easily damaged by flying rocks and alike.

I am not sure what brand of airbag you have Drew but I think you might have just been unlucky. My airbags have done a bucket load of dirt and off road work including the Cape and they are standing up perfectly. In fact I reckon they are tough as nails.

I have the Polyairs!

Cheers Andrew

[Ghost]

A trott like horse?

Yup :-D bet Tanya is ecstatic?.........

[Anth120playdo]

Yes so 1 of my air bags has let go - as predicted!
That leaves me with a lop sided ass end and a front end that seem to dive into corners a bit too much for my liking.

My current set up is the same as what Gumboot had before he converted to HD's all round.
On the vehicle at the moment are Bilstein stuts and shocks with KTFR101-H (Bottom clip) on the front & KTRR102 with busted airbags on the rear.
Measurement as of today are -
FL - 790 FR - 785
RL - 805 RR - 795

So yes these measurements are up the creek without a paddle.
Its funny you know. We had a very comfortable run up the Cape with the air bags holding the rear end at height, and far out over the last week she turned into a bouncing kangaroo around corners with an air bag that was flat!
Anyways, this was my first go at airbags and to be honest Im thinking they are a bit of a gimmick.
Airbags may be excellent for towing on bitumen, but when your on the tracks they seem too delicate and are easily damaged by flying rocks and alike.

So I had better rattle off my list of add ons & then ill ask my question to the PP suspension guru's...

FRONT-
Sov Bar with Cradle... Would these 2 items weigh as much as a steel bar?
Winch 32kg
AMTS bash plates ??kg maybe 30kg?
Racor 2ndary Filter 5kg
Delkor2nd battery 26kg
Battery tray and cables 10kg (maybe more)
=101kgs + the bar & cradle.


REAR-
Outback drawers 70kg?? Im not actually sure, possibly more than 70
Fridge 27kg
Recovery gear 20kg
Air compressor & tools 20kg easy
+ Travelling weight like food, drinks, spares & bags etc 100kg
=237kgs approximately.

ON TOP

Rhino Pioneer tray 20kg easy possibly more
Spare wheel (when on a long trip) 23 kg
Awning 10 kg??? Approx
=53kg + maxtrax etc etc

So my question is now ready to be asked.

After i fit the new KTRR102-HD's to the rear, would I be able to retain the KTFR101-H's on the front?
If so, which clip position would you go for?

Id like to keep the H's on the front and change the clip position if needed, to save some $$$ and also to take the shock load off the inner guards.
But I have a feeling The old Prado is getting loaded up with a bit too much fruit to handle it.

Gumboot seems pretty happy with the HD's allround but he has a Steel bar, so Im not sure how this compares to mine weight wise.

Cheers fellas. Drew.

Well you know, it shouldn't start bouncing because of an air bag.
Sit lop sided ok, but its the shocks that are supposed to dampen the bounce.
It is possible your Billy's are shagged, the air bags may have been hiding the real problem?
I'd be checking those billys out properly! Especially after the last set I saw on Anders vehicle.

[mackayvx]

Jeez bud, your having a rough trott!!

A trott like horse?

[Ghost]

Double post

[Ghost]

Yes so 1 of my air bags has let go - as predicted!
That leaves me with a lop sided ass end and a front end that seem to dive into corners a bit too much for my liking.

My current set up is the same as what Gumboot had before he converted to HD's all round.
On the vehicle at the moment are Bilstein stuts and shocks with KTFR101-H (Bottom clip) on the front & KTRR102 with busted airbags on the rear.
Measurement as of today are -
FL - 790 FR - 785
RL - 805 RR - 795

So yes these measurements are up the creek without a paddle.
Its funny you know. We had a very comfortable run up the Cape with the air bags holding the rear end at height, and far out over the last week she turned into a bouncing kangaroo around corners with an air bag that was flat!
Anyways, this was my first go at airbags and to be honest Im thinking they are a bit of a gimmick.
Airbags may be excellent for towing on bitumen, but when your on the tracks they seem too delicate and are easily damaged by flying rocks and alike.

So I had better rattle off my list of add ons & then ill ask my question to the PP suspension guru's...

FRONT-
Sov Bar with Cradle... Would these 2 items weigh as much as a steel bar?
Winch 32kg
AMTS bash plates ??kg maybe 30kg?
Racor 2ndary Filter 5kg
Delkor2nd battery 26kg
Battery tray and cables 10kg (maybe more)
=101kgs + the bar & cradle.


REAR-
Outback drawers 70kg?? Im not actually sure, possibly more than 70
Fridge 27kg
Recovery gear 20kg
Air compressor & tools 20kg easy
+ Travelling weight like food, drinks, spares & bags etc 100kg
=237kgs approximately.

ON TOP

Rhino Pioneer tray 20kg easy possibly more
Spare wheel (when on a long trip) 23 kg
Awning 10 kg??? Approx
=53kg + maxtrax etc etc

So my question is now ready to be asked.

After i fit the new KTRR102-HD's to the rear, would I be able to retain the KTFR101-H's on the front?
If so, which clip position would you go for?

Id like to keep the H's on the front and change the clip position if needed, to save some $$$ and also to take the shock load off the inner guards.
But I have a feeling The old Prado is getting loaded up with a bit too much fruit to handle it.

Gumboot seems pretty happy with the HD's allround but he has a Steel bar, so Im not sure how this compares to mine weight wise.

Cheers fellas. Drew.

Jeez bud, your having a rough trott!!

[mackayvx]

Yes so 1 of my air bags has let go - as predicted!
That leaves me with a lop sided ass end and a front end that seem to dive into corners a bit too much for my liking.

My current set up is the same as what Gumboot had before he converted to HD's all round.
On the vehicle at the moment are Bilstein stuts and shocks with KTFR101-H (Bottom clip) on the front & KTRR102 with busted airbags on the rear.
Measurement as of today are -
FL - 790 FR - 785
RL - 805 RR - 795

So yes these measurements are up the creek without a paddle.
Its funny you know. We had a very comfortable run up the Cape with the air bags holding the rear end at height, and far out over the last week she turned into a bouncing kangaroo around corners with an air bag that was flat!
Anyways, this was my first go at airbags and to be honest Im thinking they are a bit of a gimmick.
Airbags may be excellent for towing on bitumen, but when your on the tracks they seem too delicate and are easily damaged by flying rocks and alike.

So I had better rattle off my list of add ons & then ill ask my question to the PP suspension guru's...

FRONT-
Sov Bar with Cradle... Would these 2 items weigh as much as a steel bar?
Winch 32kg
AMTS bash plates ??kg maybe 30kg?
Racor 2ndary Filter 5kg
Delkor2nd battery 26kg
Battery tray and cables 10kg (maybe more)
=101kgs + the bar & cradle.


REAR-
Outback drawers 70kg?? Im not actually sure, possibly more than 70
Fridge 27kg
Recovery gear 20kg
Air compressor & tools 20kg easy
+ Travelling weight like food, drinks, spares & bags etc 100kg
=237kgs approximately.

ON TOP

Rhino Pioneer tray 20kg easy possibly more
Spare wheel (when on a long trip) 23 kg
Awning 10 kg??? Approx
=53kg + maxtrax etc etc

So my question is now ready to be asked.

After i fit the new KTRR102-HD's to the rear, would I be able to retain the KTFR101-H's on the front?
If so, which clip position would you go for?

Id like to keep the H's on the front and change the clip position if needed, to save some $$$ and also to take the shock load off the inner guards.
But I have a feeling The old Prado is getting loaded up with a bit too much fruit to handle it.

Gumboot seems pretty happy with the HD's allround but he has a Steel bar, so Im not sure how this compares to mine weight wise.

Cheers fellas. Drew.

[gumboot]

Well a good 6 months on and I have had no sag from the Kings HD's all around. Still very happy with the ride.

[mackayvx]

I put on Bilsteins on the middle clip. Springs are KTFR-101H on the front and KTRR-102 on the rear.
They recommend not to go HD's in the front as they were too stiff.

In the rear I have black widow draws, Frige, cargo barrier and about 50KG of gear in the draws and a full 180 litres of diesel.
In the front I have the ARB Deluxe bar, lights, battery, bash plates.

Front heights are 825mm now
Rears heights are 805mm now

I expect it to settle a little, then I have 30KG of winch and about 30kg of AMTS Bash plates to fit up as well.
I expect the front to be around 800ish at that stage.
They recommend to run the front tyres at 45 psi and the rears at 40PSI. I felt this a little to high and feels it makes the front end steering a bit light so will try dropping the front to about 40ish to see what difference that makes.
Cheers

Hey gumboot.
We have the exact same suspension combo...
Ive got air bags though.
My only concern is- Will the rear springs hold up to the task when towing the CT if an air bag gets punctured?
Im considering upgrading the rear springs incase this were to happen.
Drew

DOH...
I just read on further and seen that you have upgraded to the HD's all round...
I think thats my answer just there!
Cheers.

[wholesalesuspension]

It is more consistent to measure from rim to guard (RTG) rather than hub to guard (HTG) due to the 5-10mm variation of where exactly you may reckon the centre of the hub is. Also for consistency on PP, we generally measure RTG on standard 17" rims as per this suspension measurement thread:



However, since the OE 17" rim measures about 470mm diameter at the rim lip, in order to convert from HTG to RTG using a standard Prado 17'' rim just add 235mm. Conversely, subtract 235mm from RTG for a HTG measurement.

Agreed. That measurement will be better, if you are only measuring that rim & car combo.
I suppose not too many people change these rims on the Prado either as they are pretty strong.
We do Hub to guard at work, because with the huge range of vehicles we work on there are too many variables with wheel combo's etc.

We do measurements on every car we work on before & after work is performed and we have compiled a pretty decent database over the years to know what spring should give what end result. Some of real common stuff like the Commodores we can give something like 8 or 9 spring options within a 2 inch range on a VE Commo rear end.

I only wish there were that many spring rate & height options for the 4wd's

Regards, Jason.

[Peterpilot]

With the 40mm lift on the lowest clip, what is your actual rim to guard measurement?

I emailed Kings yesterday to query ride height with the HDs and the extra weight at the front - they provide figures from the hub to the guard (HTG) and quoted 570mm.

Based on the rim width (it's actually closer to 18" when measured, as it covers quite a lot of the tyre bead), that would give me 805mm from rim to guard.

We measure all of our heights as a Hub To Guard measurement also. From the centre of the Axle line to the Guard.
That way if you have a 14inch or a 24inch Rim, the measurement remains the same.
It is a more reliable way to measure, as it takes the variables out.

Regards, Wholesale.

It is more consistent to measure from rim to guard (RTG) rather than hub to guard (HTG) due to the 5-10mm variation of where exactly you may reckon the centre of the hub is. Also for consistency on PP, we generally measure RTG on standard 17" rims as per this suspension measurement thread:



However, since the OE 17" rim measures about 470mm diameter at the rim lip, in order to convert from HTG to RTG using a standard Prado 17'' rim just add 235mm. Conversely, subtract 235mm from RTG for a HTG measurement.

[wholesalesuspension]

With the 40mm lift on the lowest clip, what is your actual rim to guard measurement?

I emailed Kings yesterday to query ride height with the HDs and the extra weight at the front - they provide figures from the hub to the guard (HTG) and quoted 570mm.

Based on the rim width (it's actually closer to 18" when measured, as it covers quite a lot of the tyre bead), that would give me 805mm from rim to guard.

We measure all of our heights as a Hub To Guard measurement also. From the centre of the Axle line to the Guard.
That way if you have a 14inch or a 24inch Rim, the measurement remains the same.
It is a more reliable way to measure, as it takes the variables out.

Regards, Wholesale.

[craigm]

Saw Gumboots Prado on a drive yesterday. Levels looking spot on and quite a nicely kitted up Rig now....

[1coolbanana]

Good result Gumboot

[Peterpilot]

Glad to be able to help you out, I know your main concern was the handling issue, but it looks like that ride height you achieved is spot on now too. I hope the droop measurement is a bit better now than it was.

Front now sits at 805mm, Rear about 820mm loaded, and just feels much more balanced to me.

Almost exactly as per the plan:

A final ride height of 800mm in the front and 830mm in the rear (820mm loaded) will give you the correct front to rear height ratio and equates to a full 50mm of lift front and rear.