Anyone got Kings KTFR-101HD springs fitted?

[double_d69 Member Find all posts View Profile Close double_d69]

Either put in a 20mm spacer or change your rear spring to the HD... I have both but I sit about 850mm. The HD spring alone should net 1" extra in height and is perfect when fully loaded, but a little firm around town (can be fixed with adjustable shock somewhat).

[gumboot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close gumboot]

Thanks for the feedback Double_d69.

I now have the winch installed (30ish kg) and have it at its final setup unloaded.
In the rear is Black widow draws , barrier, shelf, divider, 47 litre empty fridge and about 50kg of tools and gear. This must add up to a good 200+ kgs plus 180 litres of diesel.
Front is ARB Steel deluxe Bar, dual battery, lights and avenger winch, AMTS bash plates (heavy)

As per before I put on Kings KTFR-101H in the front and KTRR-102 in the rear with Bilstein shocks ( middle circlip) . The rear biltstien ens have been on for 40ishK from the previous owner ( he was towing) but the Suspension place said they were fine and did not need replacing.

After setteling for a couple of weeks and all the weight
Front is 800mm
Rear is 805mm.
I would like a good 20-30mm back in the back and maybe 10mm in the fornt.

My two options seems to be .
1. Swap to Kings HD springs in the back. I think I could live with this ( but I have nto tried them) as I carry that weight in the prado all the time, but it will make it bounce more. King Springs reckons I would get a good 20 mm in added height as the spring would not compress so much. I could lift the front circlip on the bilstein shocks which should get me another 10mm of height in the front.
2. Leave the springs and put in a 30mm Spacer like this one in the back
http://www.superiorengineering.com.a...oducts_id=9178
and lift the front bilsteins to the top circlip positon and get 10m back in the front.

At the moment I am leaning to option 2 but will go see the suspension place now it has settled and all the weight is in the car.
I asked them about airbags and they advised against them , said they have too many failures with them but I think that was just one of the guys there that didnt like them. The other suspension place on my shortlist gave the poly a good wrap.
Decisons Decsions.

How hard are the HD springs over the normal ones seat of the pants feel, I dont mind it being firm but I dont want it skipping all over the place. ( I think they are 660lb verses 800lbs for the kings)
cheers
Robert

[double_d69 Member Find all posts View Profile Close double_d69]

In the front I would not advise using the top circlip in the billies, mainly because you lose all your travel. What you're doing is increasing the preload on the spring, this nets more height at the cost of wheel travel. I had Billies on originally and I did this and found out the hard way. You could drop back to the lowest circlip which would give you more travel and use a spacer above the strut, but this is very difficult to get the right height. The better way, and the only way i would personally recommend is to get adjustable coilovers (e.g. Icon), diff drop, and to maximise travel an aftermarket UCA (e.g. Lightracing). Trust me I went through 4 different suspension setups before I reaslised I had to bite the bullet and do this. I could have saved a lot of $$ if someone had told me what I needed in the first place!

In the rear, I'm a similar setup I have 50kg+ of tools in the rear + 80ltr fridge in the back... the springs aren't bouncy at all, quite the opposite actually, but you will definately notice a difference in ride. As mentioned when fully loaded with camping gear or towing they're awesome, unloaded I can put up with it, if I didn't have the other stuff permanently in the back then forget it. If you use spacers that will give you the height, but you will still sag when loaded, whereas the HD springs hardly sag even when fully loaded. Another thing to consider is if you get a rear bar down the track you will need HD springs.

Hope I've been helpful

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Front is 800mm
Rear is 805mm.
I would like a good 20-30mm back in the back and maybe 10mm in the front.

I agree with double_d69, the front ride height is about as high as a Bilstein can go and still retain acceptable down travel. Make sure you have 60mm minimum suspension down travel first and if you still want more height, a 5mm strut spacer like this one might get you an extra 10mm in the front without reducing down travel further. As far as the front springs are concerned, your KTFR-101H's seem to be coping with the weight well and IMHO 800mm is a good 50mm front lift in the Prado. Don't forget that above this you may have wheel alignment issues which will require new front upper control arms to rectify.

The rear ride height is the real concern and I would rectify this before getting too worried about an extra 10mm in the front. Your KTRR-102's are not coping with the rear weight at all and I suggest the KTRR-102HD's are needed to bring the rear up to about 830mm.

A final ride height of 800mm in the front and 830mm in the rear (820mm loaded) will give you the correct front to rear height ratio and equates to a full 50mm of lift front and rear.

[Way2go Member Find all posts View Profile Close Way2go]

I agree with double_d69, the front ride height is about as high as a Bilstein can go and still retain acceptable down travel.

I still have 810mm height at the front using KTFR-101HDs with Bilsteins on the middle circlip, with full droop measured at 880mm.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Sorry, I was under the impression that gumboots' ride height was already at 810mm. Either way, he needs to check his full droop before going much higher than 800mm. Even moving the circlip to the top will give him about 15mm and at ride heights over 810mm, wheel alignment may become be an issue. My adjustment was maxed at 810mm.

[gumboot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close gumboot]

Thanks Peter.
The bilsteins they put in the front are "F4-BE5 A712-M1" if that makes a diference?

I measured it yesterday with roof rack, awning, fuel and all the final weights.
The meaurments on ground were ( bottom of rim to bottom of guard lip)
Front Driver - 802mm
Fornt Pass - 795mm
Rear driver- 800mm
Rear pass - 795mm

Jacked up the rear off the towbar and the front off the fornt crossmember behind the radiator to get the free height with the wheels off the ground.
Front Driver - 847mm
Fornt Pass - 840mm
Rear driver- 890mm
Rear pass - 895mm


Rear - Should I put in KTRR-102HD in the back, as I have 100mm of drop at the moment. IF that raised the rear another 30mm, it would be about perfect. The issue now is lack of height and more importantley the ride is Very soft with the weight.

Front - It seems my droop is not enough (45-47mm) . I jacked it up under the front cross member and had the front weeks off the ground. My front free wheel travel seems less that a lot of other people.
I have the bilsteins on the middle circlip.
It has the height but it is very soft. So i was wondering if i put KTFR-101HD in and drop the circlip on the bilsteins to the lower level, as you say i might get 15mm back and get me to about 60mm of droop.

So I took the Prado to Kings Spring HQ on Friday to get their opinion. They looked at it and said HD in the back definately and it was 50/50 if i should put HD in the front as well. They said I had good front height but it did seem soft. (They said many people prefer the 101H as they are softer and go for comfort, but I have a lot of weight over the front so could go HDs)

The suspenson place doesnt want to change them, said it is fine as it is. So I guess I am going to have to look for another option.
Thanks for the advice all , as you guys have been there and done that.
Cheers

I agree with double_d69, the front ride height is about as high as a Bilstein can go and still retain acceptable down travel. Make sure you have 60mm minimum suspension down travel first and if you still want more height, a 5mm strut spacer like this one might get you an extra 10mm in the front without reducing down travel further. As far as the front springs are concerned, your KTFR-101H's seem to be coping with the weight well and IMHO 800mm is a good 50mm front lift in the Prado. Don't forget that above this you may have wheel alignment issues which will require new front upper control arms to rectify.

The rear ride height is the real concern and I would rectify this before getting too worried about an extra 10mm in the front. Your KTRR-102's are not coping with the rear weight at all and I suggest the KTRR-102HD's are needed to bring the rear up to about 830mm.

A final ride height of 800mm in the front and 830mm in the rear (820mm loaded) will give you the correct front to rear height ratio and equates to a full 50mm of lift front and rear.

[Madkore Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Madkore]

I'd be listening to King Springs myself as its their product. Seems like the suspension place doesn't really want to resolve the issue...

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Wow, only 840-847mm full droop! My standard struts had a full droop of 845mm, given that Bilsteins are 7mm longer than standard and should give 14mm more droop travel, I would have expected at least 860mm at full droop. Perhaps it has something to do with the the top suspension bush or how it was fitted?

The Bilstein BE5-A712 strut is indeed the one I am referring to as being 7mm longer than standard at 552mm extended: http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?20981-Suspension-Database

As Makadore said, Kings Springs are the experts with their product, in fact they also manufacture coils for ARB/OME (to their own specifications) as well as Tough Dog. As Kings have confirmed, the rear definitely need to be HD for the weight you're carrying. The front needs to come down to the bottom circlip, which involves removing the strut and spring anyway. If you feel the ride is too soft, then get the HD springs fitted to the front and set to the bottom circlip while it's all apart. You'll probably get a more "balanced" ride and better handling with HDs front and rear.

Way2go and 1coolbanana both have HD springs in the front with ARB bar, dual battery and winch and say they are more than happy with the ride.

[gumboot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close gumboot]

Thanks Peter
I have arranged to swap them for KTFR- 101HD and KTRR- 102HD
I will get the front Bilsteins put on the bottom circlip.
Let you know what the results are at the end of the week when it gets done.

[gumboot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close gumboot]

Well my thanks go to Peter and Michael
As the saga goes above I originally put in KTFR-101H and KTRR-102 with Bilsteins
For me there was just way to much wallow, seems the springs were just too soft and i really noticed the roll in corners will all my extra weight ( see above) and a saggy bum. etc.

I swapped them for KTFR-101HD and KTRR- 102HD. As per Kings/Peters advice and dropping the front circlip to the bottom position. For me the ride is a revelation. Just perfect. No roll, no wallow and I feel the bilstein's working. It is a firmer ride no doubt about it but not over firm with my weights. I also thrink dropping the front circlip also helped to smooth the front end out a little
Front now sits at 805mm, Rear about 820mm loaded, and just feels much more balanced to me. But if you were not running the extra weight, I wouldd hazzard a guess many would find it too firm for their liking
Cheers to all once again.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

May bad so I deleted it!

[Madkore Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Madkore]

Sounds like a great outcome gumboot.

Any pics?

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

Glad to be able to help you out, I know your main concern was the handling issue, but it looks like that ride height you achieved is spot on now too. I hope the droop measurement is a bit better now than it was.

Front now sits at 805mm, Rear about 820mm loaded, and just feels much more balanced to me.

Almost exactly as per the plan:

A final ride height of 800mm in the front and 830mm in the rear (820mm loaded) will give you the correct front to rear height ratio and equates to a full 50mm of lift front and rear.

[1coolbanana Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 1coolbanana]

Good result Gumboot