Shock recomendations

[crozmac Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crozmac]

Thanks TBPrado,
does it still have good ride around town and on the open highway aswell as partner drives prado more than I do.
Anyone one else have recommendations for what bilsteins to get?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Crozmac,

My mate just installed Konis, struts and shocks were 2K, you are getting ripped off by the Koni importer in NZ.

Call Toperformance in Melbourne and see if they can help you out.

Personally I don't like Bilsteins.

Best

Mark

[TBPrado Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TBPrado]

Thanks TBPrado,
does it still have good ride around town and on the open highway aswell as partner drives prado more than I do.
Anyone one else have recommendations for what bilsteins to get?

Don't worry, I got the "it better not drive like a truck" speel from the wife before going ahead with it and no complaints from her so must be good.

Defenitely feels better after install compared to stock. You'll think to yourself why you didn't get it done earlier.

But Koni or Bilsteins you can't go wrong. I would've gone Koni (had them in previous 4x4 and loved them) but are they that much better for the extra outlay.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

But Koni or Bilsteins you can't go wrong. I would've gone Koni (had them in previous 4x4 and loved them) but are they that much better for the extra outlay.

That's an interesting question, which I feel compelled to reply to.

1. Oil capacity and cooling

As I mentioned above, I just put Koni RAIDS in my mates 120. The RAIDS are massive shocks, 70mm diameter, compared to Bilsteins with 48mm diameter.

As such, with so much more oil, the Konis will always run cooler.

There's a thread somewhere from a bunch of guys who did the Canning, they used laser thermometers to check their shocks, and the RAIDS were always the coolest, even though they are twin-tube compared to monotube Bilsteins.

2. Valving

The Konis are much more stiffly valved than the Bilsteins. I have run Bilsteins through the Simpson, and when heavy vehicle pitching occurs, they are useless at cycling out the pitch. Bilstein valving is way too soft.

...found this thread about Konis and valving feedback.

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...makes-me-happy

Try pulling the piston shaft out on an 88-1712, and you'll know what stiff valving is!

3. Suspension travel/articulation

Here is where Konis fall over, the 88-1712's have the shortest stroke of all front struts, and you need to be careful how much you lift so you retain decent droop...

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...nsion-Database

Similarly, the most common 712/713 Bilstein combination are in my opinion useless in lifted Prados, see here...

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado-120-IFS

After running 712/713's at 2" lift with strut top-out and poor valving for years, I had enough.

You can get long travel Bilsteins from CalOffroad, however, they are more softly valved than 712/713's, and have all bump safety margin removed for the 120, with a long closed length around 440mm (including shroud spacer), see here...

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Prado-120-IFS

So after reading all of that, you should be aware that if you lift too high, you will run into problems with both Konis and Bilsteins 712/713's.

4. Ride quality

At 1" lift, my mates 120 has just enough droop with the front Koni RAID 88-1712's, and it rides far better than my Bilstein 712/713's ever did.


Personally, I would not run Konis or Bilsteins in my own Prado 120, as I want a minimum of 2" lift and maximum suspension articulation.

However, if the Konis could be made in custom length (which they presently cannot be), I would be running them every day of the week. You would never need another set of struts/shocks ever again.

If the long travel Bilsteins were much more stiffly valved (the same can be said of many brands), and had the correct lengths (which presently they do not, and they cannot be made to custom length), I would give them a try just to see how they went.

Ride handling and feel of the car after putting in after market suspension is a very subjective thing, and what one bloke likes, another will hate, so I hope this helps out and puts a bit more technical knowledge into your decision making process crozmac.

Best

Mark

[simonfish Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close simonfish]

ok whitey, so you criticise both Koni and Bilstein. What do you recommend ?

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

ok whitey, so you criticise both Koni and Bilstein. What do you recommend ?

Hey simonfish,

Not criticisms as such, just pointing out the technical plus/minuses of each. As I said, if I could get the Koni RAIDS in custom length I'd be trying them.

At the moment I'm running twin-tube Durashocks from Driveline Services, which are Generation I Lovells. Peterpilot is running the same gear. Lovells (who originally sourced their struts/shocks from Driveline Services) are now on to their 3rd iteration, which have poor closed-open lengths compared to Gen I.

I chose the Gen I Durashocks on the basis of closed-open lengths, 420-570mm front strut, 365-618mm rear shock, the offset bush ring eye on the front struts, customisable lengths (top-out bump stop can be reduced to increase open length, gas pressure and valving can also be adjusted if you're after it), rebuildable struts/shocks, bush driving reputation and the fact that Driveline Services are 10min down the road from me.

They may not be the flashiest struts/shocks in the market, but for the moment I'm enjoying them. The ride with Dobinsons coils is pretty good.

As for a recommendation, at the top end of the market, if you have a spare 4K, King Shocks will build you 10-way rebound/compression adjustable remote res custom length rebuildable struts/shocks. For that money, you get the best.

My Durashocks are obviously at the other end of the market, but I would still recommend them for the budget buyer. Struts/shocks and coils were 1.1K.

Koni RAIDS are in the middle of the market for around 2K, but I would say performance wise they are more of a top end product.

For me, closed-open lengths are the first thing I look at, then valving, then construction, twin or mono etc.

I would put the Durashocks in/above the same class as OME, XGS, EFS, etc.

What struts/shocks are you currently running?

Best

Mark

[simonfish Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close simonfish]

Thanks Mark, I am running Bilsteins, BE5A712 (front) and 24-238830 (rear) with king KTFR-101H (front) and KTRR-102 (rear), with an ARB deluxe bar and warn winch on the front (with dyneema rope), dual battery coming (so another 22kg in the engine bay) and Drifta drawers in the rear (with the third row of seats removed, so no additional weight really with the drawers). Fridge coming so another 20kg in the rear.

Choosing shocks is pretty dependant on how we use our vehicles most of the time I think, I am happy with my choice, sounds like you are happy with yours.
cheers
Simon

[crozmac Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crozmac]

How much lift are you guys all getting?
I have no bar etc just stock and are really only after say 1" lift as I am still yet to put the 70series tyres on which will lift it a little aswell. Not sure I want to go up 2" in the suspension??
I don't do anything to extreme offroad just more a touring 4wd as its a everyday vehicle.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey crozmac,

Standard Kings will give you around 1.5" lift, depending on accessories. See this link;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...0-series-Prado

Best

Mark

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

I have supplied a few Pradopoint Members with the Kings/Koni Combo & from all accounts everyone loves them.
In my opinion, the Koni's are without peer for comfort, control and longevity.

Regards, Jason.

[crozmac Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crozmac]

wholesale are they the Koni raids or different koni's???
I am going to give the raids a miss overly priced here in NZ. Spoke to TOPPerformance and they said they have a thing with koni that they cannot send to NZ because there is already an importer here.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey crozmac,

That's a bummer!

I would give Jason a call in Sydney, as he may be able to help you out still??

All sounds like bs to me with the NZ importer jacking up prices.

Best

Mark

[wholesalesuspension Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wholesalesuspension]

We supply the HT Raids for them.

Regards, Jason.