Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Foam Cell Shocks

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 2
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 2 template Next
  • #1

    Foam Cell Shocks

    Right guys I need some help.

    I'm seriously thinking of booking in for my suspension upgrade soonish. Money is now key for me and I won't be going too expensive this time around. With this in mind I'm likely to go with the Blue Max gear that Coastal 4X4 fit here in Perth. Last time I spoke with them they recommended Foam Cell shocks to me. What is the story with these? Can't seem to find anything but company blurbs when it comes to the nitty gritty of how good these really are. I'd only be the occasional offroad tripper in the next few years I'd say (sadly), and nothing real hardcore. Are corrugations going to blow these apart? They seem the cheaper option and I guess I'm just wondering why that might be? What's the real difference between these and say the Nitrogen shocks I see advertised?
    [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: Foam Cell Shocks

    foa cell units are mainly used for steering damper applications, where they dont run vertical.

    They cant be overheated, as they seperate the foam particles, and block up the valving, ruining the shock.

    The bottom bush on the front shocks can also be an issue, if they flog out, they break the bottom stem off the shock.

    Seen it happen to many "cheaper" aftermarket shocks.

    I would say if you want quality for the money, the ridepro units have a new monotube front with superpro bottom bush that has been tested and trialled here, which seems to work very well, with its 41mm bore size, and height adjustable circlip positions on the front struts and 2 yr 40,000km warranty, would be my "par time" budget set up, if I owned a 120.

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: Foam Cell Shocks

      Thanks Assassin. Somehow I thought you'd be the one to reply 8) .

      It's a very murky world I've come to find, when looking into different suspension types and products. Looking into the Monotube tech you describe, it's difficult to find a clear consensus on what people prefer. Am I correct in saying that monotube shock designs are only a relatively recent addition to major brand lineups? Of course there's no pricing to be seen online at all. All sites simply say "contact us for a quote". Monotube tech will be more expensive over the usual twin tube tech though .... correct? Is the price differential worth it? For a casual offroader?

      Info/comments from the Depths of the internet.

      "What I have read is that gas charged are supposedly better lasting and will recover better after overheating, but are harder riding. However, I have also read that foam cell shocks are better suited to harsh conditions but once overheated, they are gone."

      "I've found that gas shocks get very hot due to compression of the gas on really bad corrugations, resulting in failure of seals. This was not an issue until the Gunbarrell/Canning trip of 2008 when the 4000k of corrugations were the worst I've ever seen. Straight oil shocks were the coolest. Foam is suposed to be better than gas."

      "Okay, so far I'm hearing straight oil is quite good, foam is better than gas as they don't heat up as quickly or as much, BUT once they do get hot, they don't dissapate the heat as well as gas. Would this be right, or have I got it all scrambled in my mind?? "

      What is a foam cell?? This from info about the Tough Dog ones.
      "The use of micro-cellular foam inserts has produced a new breed of shocks, which are more resistant to fade. The foam used in the shocks has tiny closed cells which contain gas bubbles. The oil inside the shock cannot mix with the gas bubbles inside the foam, thus allowing the shock to perform with less fade."
      So I assume when you overheat the shock, you ruin the foam material inside and then the valves follow.

      What though, would it take to kill foam cell shocks? Is this going to occur after 15 mins of corrugations? Or more like a days punishment? Coastal 4x4 have quoted around $1500 for blue max gear including the 41mm internal bore rear foam cells. I was thinking for my level of punishment, they'd fit the bill. Especially for the price. But am willing to look further afield if you guys can suggest anything in that price range.
      [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: Foam Cell Shocks

        Monotube high pressure gas offer better control and the valving will be more similar from empty to full.

        They also dissapate heat better, not having oil in the 2nd layer insulating it.

        This will make monotube feel hotter to the touch as well,

        1/ because they are generally, controlling the movement better,

        and

        2/ because they are directly related to the oil doing its thing on the inside.

        There is no given time on a road they will cook the shocks, but corrugations are the best at doing it, or slower long travel continuous stoke of the shock as well. Once they have been hot enough to do damage though, you have no shock control, which can be an issue, depending on where it happens.

        In independent testing on a shock dyno, where each shock is run at double the world standard of .2m per second [so .4m per second] to give us an idea of what works, the shocks are then retested 24 hrs later, to see what amount of recovery the shock will regain after this test.

        Yellow 3 letter company twin tubes go for 13-17 minutes average before overheating to offer little resistance.

        Recovery saw a loss of 7% average of performance for each overheat.


        Foam cells went 32-37 minutes average.

        Recovery saw loss of performance of 37 - 52 %


        Ridepro white and silvers went 1 hr [duration of test] slightly changing the paint color of the shock with out losing performance.

        Recovery saw a loss of less than 1%


        Bilstein didnt change color, and didnt alter performance.

        Recovery saw no loss of performance.


        Its this type of data, and testing which allows us to decide what is best for the application, everyone has stories and experiences, good or bad, and I have passed vehicles on the road twhere the drivers arent even aware the shocks arent working from being overheated, but, a motorsport background of applying foolproof methods with best "next option" and "worst case' issues, is what helps us decide what we want to use, and what is best value for money in these circumstances.

        Spending good money once, almost always works out cheaper in the long run.

        Once we test it, and are happy, then testing it in the real world, before deciding we can use it, is normally a 3-6 month process, rather than the rep just dropping off a catalogue, and we place an order :wink:

        Most stress crack issues we see on 120 are caused from striking the bump stops, which is considerd pat of the shocks job, to control the movement, in this case, and the springs job to suspensd the vehicle at the height required, for the load.

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: Foam Cell Shocks

          The poor man pays twice. Aye... then pays twice again. That's why he's poor.... :? Good advice...

          Well Assassin. That's some extremely helpful information right there. You guys are seriously steering me away from the Blue Max foam cells huh? Well I can see why with solid data like that to back it up. The Foam cell shocks are supposed to give you a "softer" ride, using the words of the guys at Coastal 4x4. What sort of ride would you get out of the Ridepro Silvers in comparison?

          I suppose I'm looking at the overkill factor here. In being brutally honest, I'd say most work in the next few years is going to be blacktop, moderately loaded. Maybe about 4 times a year I'm going to go offroad in any serious manner. Even then I can't imagine anything outrageous. One day I'll get back to the Gunbarrel, but that's not going to be anytime soon ( :evil: ). I'll need a little extra clearance from time to time to reach some good fishing spots and camping grounds near the beach. You know what those sandy tracks can be like with deeply rutted wheel tracks. So pretty tame by you lads' standards, that's why I was leaning to the Blue Max foamies and struts as a starting point.

          So ok, that aside.

          At the moment I'm pencilled in for Blue Max foam cells at the rear and Blue Max struts up the front. Heavy Duty King Springs all round. Now that's going to cost me around $1500 fitted.

          So you guys are saying maybe use the Ridepro Silvers / White (what's the difference?) at the rear? And I assume Ridepro Struts up front? Still Use the King Springs? What's a ballpark figure for this setup? 2K+?

          Thanks for the help too. That's why forums like this are the only place to be. 8)
          [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: Foam Cell Shocks

            Hi Darren,

            Originally posted by assassinoffroad
            In independent testing on a shock dyno
            Thanks for that valuable info Darren. Where can the average person access this type of data? Since you mentioned the OME shocks, is there any test data on the new OME Sport shocks? (I don't mean to hijack your thread IP).

            LFaR.
            [size=1][color=#770000]29Feb12:[/color][color=#777700]12GXLTD Auto, ARB Deluxe Winch bar, WARN 9.5xp Winch, IPF 900XS, Tow, Safari snorkel, Front + Rear Recovery points, ARB OME NC Sports, ATZ-4Rib[/color][color=grey], Silver[/color]. [color=orange][b]MaxTrax[/b][/color], [color=maroon]ScanGuage II[/color], [color=blue]ARB CKMA12[/color], [color=deeppink]UHF: GME TX3440 AE4018K1 UNH047SX[/color], [color=darkgreen]Bushranger Air Jack[/color], [color=green]Staun + ARB Deflators[/color], [color=brown]WindCheetah Roof Rack[/color], [color=green]Foxwing[/color], [color=red]Super Charge MRV70, Redarc BCDC1220[/color], [color=darkblue]ARB 60L fridge[/color], [color=blue]MSA Fridge Dropdown slide[/color], [color=darkyellow]DRIFTA Drawers[/color], [color=gold]TJM Bash Plates[/color], [color=brown]TG150[/color].[/size]

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: Foam Cell Shocks

              Originally posted by IRON-PAWW
              ying maybe use the Ridepro Silvers / White (what's the difference?) at the rear? And I assume Ridepro Struts up front? Still Use the King Springs? What's a ballpark figure for this setup? 2K+?
              $2k+ is the ballpark for the Bilstein/RidePro kit fitted.

              Dunno if it's still available, but in december there was a special for RidePro 50mm raised springs all around, struts and shocks for $895. Plus fitting ($350). viewtopic.php?f=36&t=4900

              Michael
              2008 D4D M6 GXL [MT ATZ-P3][Whitey's Ironman 45710FE/45682FE+KTFR101H/Dob487][extended Roadsafe links][Polyairs][DBA T3/T2][amts diffdrop & recovery points][Tin175's stone guards][Bushskins BashPlate][ARB Sahara][IPF 900s][Snorkel][WindCheetah][MaxTrax][IC-440][Parrot Asteroid][ARB Fridge][Lifestyle 2nd Row Fridge Mount][ARB Compressor][Thumper][SandGrabbers][Cargo Barrier][Tigerz Awning][MCC Rear Bar]

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                Don't worry about Hijacking.... As at the end of the day, what this discussion boils down to is comparing one shock type with another.

                Ok, If I could get a Ridepro fitout for 2 grand I could go that. I might just do some digging.

                As mentioned though, individual businesses only want to sell you the products they endorse. Whether they truly believe what they're telling you or not. Money clouds everything. True facts and honest reviews are hard to come by.
                [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                  Iron-Paww,

                  If I thought we could sell a better product than what we do, value for money [ridepro] and long term best money can buy [Bilstein] then we would be selling it, we dont sell what we have in stock, or have access to, or make the best margin on, we sell what we think is best for the job.

                  Thats also why when people arent sure, we tell them they can have it fitted, if it isnt everything we have said, or you arent happy with it, we will remove it, and put what ever your next choice was, fitted free.

                  Havent had to remove one yet.

                  We also dont draw a line in the sand on warranty, if something happened, we would like to be the second people to know, in case we can chnage something, monitor something, ensure everything worked as it should.

                  That doesnt say we get everything 110% every time, but how its solved is generally important, not that it isnt 110% for what ever reason.

                  That all seems to put us at odds with many people, including other shops, but I cant help that, all advise looks the same in a forum post, but opinion isnt data :wink: .

                  Feel free to give me acall to discuss, just for advice, or to ask questions.

                  03 522 11 371.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                    Well Darren I wish you guys had a business here in Perth! Thanks for the offer to call for advice! I might just do that in the next few days. Sometimes it's difficult to come by genuine advice.
                    [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                      Ok, had an interesting morning. Went to Coastal 4x4 and found that they've never used or sold Ridepro gear. As such they couldn't tell me much about them, which is completely fair enough. What they could tell me though is that the Blue Max shocks and Struts are manufactured by Gabriel. In fact, most entry level small name shocks are extremely likely to be either manufactured by Gabriel or Monroe. OME shocks are (supposedly) manufactured by Monroe. Reviews become less glowing once you start to look into Gabriel stuff, which is interesting. Apparently Gabriel was a big name brand some years ago, but have since come under heavy competition from the likes of Bilstein, Lovell, Koni etc. Coastal 4x4 stand rock solidly by their Blue Max gear though and say they have very little trouble with it. However....... this is standing at their sales desk with other customers well within earshot. The guy I spoke with wasn't sure, but strongly suspected that Ridepro was Gabriel gear. Just what he said. So treat that statement with extreme caution.

                      So. Off to WA Suspensions for another take on it all, which as luck would have it, is less than 10 minutes from my house. Interestingly, they could not describe to me exactly how foam cell shocks are made. They don't sell foam cells at all and don't recommend them. Geez! :? Talk about conflicting information! They say you're far better off with a complete Lovells setup, lovells springs, shocks and struts. Though the shocks I'm pretty sure they said only had a 38mm bore VS the now seemingly universal 41mm bore as per the Blue Max. A full Lovell fitout at WA suspensions... around $1600 (rough figure). Once again, WA Suspensions does not stock Ridepro gear either, and also couldn't tell me much about them.

                      Then I'm told that a Bilstein shock, Lovell spring fitout will cost about $1850 (rough figure). And that was what they firmly pushed on me. Nearly fell over as I was expecting this combo to be well over 2 grand. What's more the rear Bilstein shocks are now a monotube design that the guy said take one hell of a lot of punishment. Now I've got some model numbers, because I'm sure I've seen Darren warning us to make sure you get the correct Bilstein shocks.

                      Rear Monotube: BE5-A713 $536.00 / pair
                      Front Struts: BE5-A712 $560.00 / pair

                      What comments can you guys make? Are these the go with Lovells springs? If so then I'm seriously considering it.

                      Edit: After extensive reading in the Suspension section
                      I read some troubles with Lovells sagging? What have people found with this?
                      Do the Bilstein shocks need to be re-valved to be any good?
                      [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                        Hey IP
                        Originally posted by IRON-PAWW
                        A full Lovell fitout at WA suspensions... around $1600 (rough figure)
                        This seems a little on the high side. I paid less than $800 for the kit from 4wd direct and $300ish for fitting and aligning through our regular mechanic.
                        Corbo paid about the same for a dobinson coil/lovells damper setup from suspension stuff.
                        Both companies websites are listed in "Lovells Fitted Today" thread.
                        One of them does free freight Australia wide, one says they will pay some of freight to places away from the east coast. I think they are both based in Brisbane.
                        4wd Direct sell bilstein, not sure about suspension stuff, for about $950 for the front and rear, then springs are about $160 - $170 a pair, so about $1270 for for the kit, plus fitting, which really shouldn't more than $300 - $400. So for your $1600 you can get the bilsteins you probably really want.

                        In the end, it comes down to what you really want and need. What works for me may well be too harsh for you.

                        On that note, the lovells I have (medium duty raised springs front and rear/lovells dampers) did not raise the front all that much, which is good for me, I have 18mm of clearance into our garage with the roof cross bars and bike rack, but they have not sagged in the 6 months they have been on, the ride is firmer than standard but not harsh.

                        Good luck, whichever way you go, it will almost certainly be better than standard.

                        Cheers Steve
                        Steve
                        Silver 2005 VX

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                          Well, deals done. I had to do a fair bit of reading and ringing around to convince myself of what I wanted, as well as what was value for money in my case.

                          Then I rang Darren McRae at Auto-Craft in Geelong. The man has damn answers for everything! :lol: Had a good old chat about many things suspension-wise and It was good to get honest opinions about the products I was looking into. Something I'd found a bit hard to come by up until this point. Except on this forum of course! Result? Yet another Auto-Craft Bilstein / Ridepro kit is about to cross the nullarbor.

                          This will be fitted by Perth 4x4 in Balcatta who have worked with Mr McRae's goodies before.

                          In the end it was looking like around $1500 for the Blue Max gear fitted. I was ready to go this way. At the time I thought my trips would be pretty tame with perhaps maybe only one trip per year that would give my suspension any real work to do. So why bother getting more expensive gear? Because when I am on that one trip a year, I don't want my suspension flying off into orbit. And I don't want to be worried about it. I realized that there's places I don't take the Prado at the moment because I know it'd become a grader. Most recently over Easter I didn't take it along a beach track because I knew it'd be a bit of a gamble. Similarly, If I had a cheaper suspension fitout, I may not choose to go certain routes because I'd be worried about equipment damage. For the sake of a few hundred extra spent now, I thought the added peace of mind out there in the great yonder would be worth it. With so many people recommending the setup it's hard to ignore. It's no silver bullet, but it's the best I can do right now. It might be a while before I really do this setup justice, but so be it. It'll be there when I do decide it's go time.

                          I think the foam cells have their place. Certainly if you need to watch your pennies. I'm saving for a house......... but I haven't actually bought one yet........ :lol: :lol: :lol: If you do go the foam cell route though, I think you just need to be aware of the limitations of the gear and drive accordingly. That is, be aware of overheating situations (corrugations etc) and just keep it in mind. They're not necessarily bad equipment. I think it's as Mr Vx05 says. It's what you want and what you need.

                          So a thanks to Darren and the lads at Auto-Craft, plus everyone in the forum bringing 4WD enthusiasts together with decent gear. Fitout is scheduled for May 25th.
                          [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                            I run Desert Fox Foam Cell Shocks on my hilux and have now for 2 years.

                            Hilux has been running them from day one with a full 3 inch lift and 33" mud terrains without a problem.

                            They have been to hell and back offroad and still perform like new......havent got a bad thing to say about them.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: Foam Cell Shocks

                              Yep. And this is what makes things difficult for first timers like me buying decent suspension gear. Over the last few weeks I've spoken to quite a few people, and read that many differing reviews and experiences, each offering their own take on what is good and what has worked for them. More than one person stood there before me saying there is nothing significant to gain from buying Bilstein shocks. Then others have stories about bad fade problems and burnout with cheaper shocks. Some people have nothing but good reports from their Lovells coils and will keep buying them until they die, yet someone else has seen more than one set of broken Lovells coils and is cautious about recommending them. Some people say Foam cells suffer fade quite badly once they get hot, yet others say they've never had a problem with that happening. I think all people like me can do is talk to people who've had various experiences with different gear and then set a budget and get stuck in. The only real way to find out for myself is to get stuck in with a particular fitout and see what happens.
                              [b]#[/b] 2007 D4D GX [b]#[/b] Full Privacy Tint [b]#[/b] [color=#FF0000][b] Flinders Red [/b][/color] [b]#[/b] 2 x HID LightForce 240 Blitz [b]#[/b] ARB Winch Bar [b]#[/b] Alloy Rims [b]#[/b] Hilux Washer Jets [b]#[/b] Stebel Nautilus Compact Truck Horn [b]#[/b] ARB Alloy Roof Rack [b]#[/b] ARB Dual Battery System [b]#[/b] Charcoal Rough Country Canvas Seat Covers [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]Suspension:[/color]Autocraft Bilstein Shocks/Struts & Ridepro Coils [b]#[/b] [color=#0000FF]L.E.D[/color] Side Marker Lights [b]#[/b] ARB Onboard Air [b]#[/b] Pirelli Scorpion LT ATR 265/70's [b]#[/b][color=#0080FF]--Custom 3"exhaust---[/color]

                              Comment

                              Previous 1 2 template Next
                              Working...
                              X