Upper control arms and front end travel.

[boof Member Find all posts View Profile Close boof]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

What sort of height are you aiming for with the new arms? I am interested to see how this turns out 8)

[bazzle Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close bazzle]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

I noticed an early post referring to the fact there was still 25mm of bump stop left... to allow more room to play with........

When an aftermarket suspension company (and Toyota etc) designs a suspension they take into consideration worst case suspension extremes, ie. dropping of front suspension when airborne etc. Same for compression on landing when driving fast over whoopsies etc.
This places loads on the components that you cannot replicate standing on the suspension arms using tyre levers etc. etc.
Safety Space MUST be left for bushes to compress fully (and they do) safety clearance inside shocks to prevent piston and valve bodies getting squashed, flex in the chassis and mounting points. etc etc
I see the aftermath of ripped CV's, torn out ball joints, damaged shocks, coil spring bind etc.

Ensure you do due diligence and take into account ALL safety cleances when modifying your 4bees.
Also you cannot do mods on a static vehicle and compare, you must drive for the comonents to settle and the alighnment to even out (IFS stops the tyre sitting flat until you move vehicle)

Bazzle

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

Hi Mick

Interested to hear if you have fitted these components up yet and how they have improved the travel in front end? Cheers

Lakey

It's a work in progress, unfortunately I can get parts out of the US faster than I can from local suppliers :evil: (still waiting for a couple of things) ..Plus - I've been flat out for the last two months and haven't had two minutes to myself (hence my absence from PP)

Stay tuned for a full write up and pics.

What sort of height are you aiming for with the new arms? I am interested to see how this turns out

I don't have any exact numbers for you as I haven't done the maths, but off the cuff I don't see why I can't get another inch over what I have now (so somewhere around 825-830mm) and still retain the nesessary droop, CV angles and alignment settings.

I'd like to go nuts with it (just to prove it can be done and without spending $5k on a solid axle swap :!: ) but it's all getting a little silly in regards to the boys in blue and engineering here in SA at the moment (ie vehicles getting defected despite having all the engineering and paper work squared away) On top of TP's defect story, I've heard a few more going around the traps at the moment.

Mick

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

have any of you guys considered a Long travel kit from the States from the likes of Icon or Total Choas?

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

have any of you guys considered a Long travel kit from the States from the likes of Icon or Total Choas?

The 12" travel kit shown in your picture is very (Read: VERY) expensive and more suited to off road racing/very hardcore applications. Better value for money would be the 8" travel kit (long travel coil over strut + uni-ball upper control arms - as pictured minus the lower control arm and limiting straps).

Personally I'm not a fan of anything with a Uni-ball joint in it full stop.... they are noisey and require regular rebuilds (even more so in our dusty enviroment). However if you want the very best front end tarvell they are the way to go.

Total Chaos have an Australian distributor now and may not sell to you directly anymore.

Contact: Wizard Performance in Labrador, Qld.

Mick

[double_d69 Member Find all posts View Profile Close double_d69]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

have any of you guys considered a Long travel kit from the States from the likes of Icon or Total Choas?

The 12" travel kit shown in your picture is very (Read: VERY) expensive and more suited to off road racing/very hardcore applications. Better value for money would be the 8" travel kit (long travel coil over strut + uni-ball upper control arms - as pictured minus the lower control arm and limiting straps).

Personally I'm not a fan of anything with a Uni-ball joint in it full stop.... they are noisey and require regular rebuilds (even more so in our dusty enviroment). However if you want the very best front end tarvell they are the way to go.

Total Chaos have an Australian distributor now and may not sell to you directly anymore.

Contact: Wizard Performance in Labrador, Qld.

Mick

Mick,

Any updates on your project? What shocks/springs will you go for once you install the new control arms?
I just bought a house so my upgrades have come to a screaming hault :cry:


Double_D

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

I just bought a house so my upgrades have come to a screaming hault

Bugger.... there goes all your play money for a bit

Any updates on your project? What shocks/springs will you go for once you install the new control arms?

I was going to import some Donahoe, Camburg or Toytec long travel coil overs but at this stage that would have doubled the cost of my little make over and I've been copping some heat from the wife about spending :roll:

At this stage I'll keep the Old Man Emu springs front and rear, and freshen things up with a new set of Nitrocharger Sport shocks.

I have Snake Racing 1 inch strut tops to go in the front (out comes my 6mm custom spacer) and I'll drop the diff with the Toytec kit I got from the US. Of course the Light Racing UCA's will go in also. I'll also make up some sway bar spacers.

In the rear I have some 2" coil spacers that I'll machine down to whatever suits the front height (current 20mm Rockcrawler ones will get the flick) I'll machine up some sway bar extensions and new shock mounts all to suit the new ride height. Also got bump stop extensions to make (front and rear)

While I would have liked new front coil overs I think what I'm doing will still work well. I should gain some lift with the same articulation as now in the rear. In the front the factory UCA's hit the OME springs with about 15-20mm travel left in the strut so I should gain this much droop at least.

If it works out I'll be pretty happy as the money spent has been quite reasonable so far.... if not I can still import some new long travel coil overs :wink:

Just waiting for a day or two off to do the work.... :roll:

Mick

[double_d69 Member Find all posts View Profile Close double_d69]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

I just bought a house so my upgrades have come to a screaming hault

Bugger.... there goes all your play money for a bit

[quote:7cwnf6gv]Any updates on your project? What shocks/springs will you go for once you install the new control arms?

I was going to import some Donahoe, Camburg or Toytec long travel coil overs but at this stage that would have doubled the cost of my little make over and I've been copping some heat from the wife about spending :roll:

At this stage I'll keep the Old Man Emu springs front and rear, and freshen things up with a new set of Nitrocharger Sport shocks.

I have Snake Racing 1 inch strut tops to go in the front (out comes my 6mm custom spacer) and I'll drop the diff with the Toytec kit I got from the US. Of course the Light Racing UCA's will go in also. I'll also make up some sway bar spacers.

In the rear I have some 2" coil spacers that I'll machine down to whatever suits the front height (current 20mm Rockcrawler ones will get the flick) I'll machine up some sway bar extensions and new shock mounts all to suit the new ride height. Also got bump stop extensions to make (front and rear)

While I would have liked new front coil overs I think what I'm doing will still work well. I should gain some lift with the same articulation as now in the rear. In the front the factory UCA's hit the OME springs with about 15-20mm travel left in the strut so I should gain this much droop at least.

If it works out I'll be pretty happy as the money spent has been quite reasonable so far.... if not I can still import some new long travel coil overs :wink:

Just waiting for a day or two off to do the work.... :roll:

Mick[/quote:7cwnf6gv]


So at the end of this you should have between a 3 and 4" lift?

What's the extended length of the Nitrocharger sport shocks?

I'm still researching into using a lot of 80 series LC gear such as flexy coils and shocks that extend at least 665mm... however i think at that flex my LH UCA will hit the fuel tank. I need to pull it all to bits again and remeasure... i think im going to need adjustable upper/lower arms and panhard rod which would have to be a custom job unless i can get 80 series ones to fit. having said that i see total chaos do them but ridiculously expensive (like all their stuff).

Keep us updated on the project - very keen to see the end result! :wink:

Double_D

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

Not sure on the panard rod yet... I'll see where my axle is once I'm all finished.

I have no info on the travel of the Sport range of shocks, I'm assuming they are the same as the standard Nitrochargers.

My current modified N141 extend to 658mm (576mm standard N141)

The 80 series N47E is 620mm and the N74L is 671mm.

I'd was quite keen on the N74L but they only come as a standard "Nitrocharger" and are sold as a competion shock, which means no warranty (as I only found out this week)

If your doing your measuring on a hoist then take into account in the real world that you never get the whole axle at full droop, it's always one wheel down and one wheel up..... so things like tailshaft angles etc suddenly look a whole lot better :wink:

Mick

[8608 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close 8608]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

wicked thread.

this is exactly what i'm planning on doing. i currently have the OME set up with 885's and the N140S (soft and comfy) and the 896's with the N74E (80S shocks) somewhere a long the lines the sway bar fell off. heaps more travel out of the rear with no swaybar. just use sway bar disconnects.

at this stage, i'm about 70mm and 90mm above standard, being about 805mm in the front and 865mm in the rear. i have no winch yet.

i was looking at going the snake 1" front strut spacer and a rear coil spacer to match. my coils (896's) now come loose at full droop. another inch of droop and i reckon i can take the coil out. upper links on the rear haven't touched the tank yet. i haven't noticed the rear diff move accross as much yet.

i keep seeing all these 120 platforms overin the states with mega lifts and 35" and 37" tyres. but we can't do BL over here, so i'm happy with a 3"-4" lift, with some 285's and some half descent travel.

i've been looking at the UCA Mick's got, (can you PM a ball park of price landed) and also wondering about the front diff drop. i'm also not sure how much room there is for a diff drop and front swaybar drop between the BD bash plate i have.

please let us know how you progress with this.

cheers

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

this is exactly what i'm planning on doing. i currently have the OME set up with 885's and the N140S (soft and comfy) and the 896's with the N74E (80S shocks) somewhere a long the lines the sway bar fell off. heaps more travel out of the rear with no swaybar. just use sway bar disconnects.

at this stage, i'm about 70mm and 90mm above standard, being about 805mm in the front and 865mm in the rear. i have no winch yet.

Be interested in a few details on the use of the 80s shock in the rear there. Exchanged a few PMs with MickL last week and I also spoke to ARB about this and they indicated that there would be a lot of issues to do with the shock being designed for a 3" - 5" spring while using a shorter spring. Would like to see some photos of your setup when you can.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

i've been looking at the UCA Mick's got, (can you PM a ball park of price landed) and also wondering about the front diff drop. i'm also not sure how much room there is for a diff drop and front swaybar drop between the BD bash plate i have.

They cost about $500AUD a pair (depending on exchange rates at the time, about $450 US from memory) plus about $30-40 freight (I had some other stuff as well).

The diff drop kit was $30US and includes shims/spacers to drop the bash plate.

I also spoke to ARB about this and they indicated that there would be a lot of issues to do with the shock being designed for a 3" - 5" spring while using a shorter spring.

The only issue is the springs falling out if you get your maths wrong :lol: With a spacer/spring combo you can run a longer shock, also the ARB shocks are badly matched to their springs, there is at least 60mm unused travel in a 896/N141 combo (in my case I run a 80mm shock extension with 896 spring/20mm spacer)

Mick

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

wicked thread.
i keep seeing all these 120 platforms overin the states with mega lifts and 35" and 37" tyres. but we can't do BL over here, so i'm happy with a 3"-4" lift, with some 285's and some half descent travel.

I'm yet to see a 120 series with 37s that hasn't had a body lift. If only a suspension lift is fitted the largest tyre possible seems to be a 35. Even then I have followed buildup threads where countless problems have arisen from complications of the lift - its not all straight foward. Americans do however have their heads around wheel offsets which enables them to fit larger tyres more easierly - have seen quite a few fit 285/70/r17 to stock GX470s with aftermarket rims.
On the note of a bodylifts I know of someone who says they have written approval for a bodylift from QLD transport for a brand new hilux - based on the law that states that the body lift must not hinder any function of the Air Bag system, as the Air bad system has no connection or relation to that of chassis it is therefore legal. He also says he had to get Toyota to come to the party to say it would have no effect or hindrance on the fuctions of the airbag systems. Just waiting to see if he goes ahead with it and it gets engineered before i get too excited though - but it might be a possibilty, if it is look out 37" tyres here I come :P

I'll be interest to see how things pan out when you get around to fitting your goodies MickL.

[8608 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close 8608]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

with my 896's and the N74E's, (Not N74L's) and my rear sway bar disconnected, the shocks are very close to matching the travel of the rear and 896's. this means i haven't had the need to fit bump stop extensions to sort out compression. i can get more droop, but i will sacrafice compression up travel..

i will be bolting the locating cone up to the chassis to aid in locating the coil when it comes loose slightly. i will post pics when i do it. as you all know, there's not much that locates the upper coil mounts. i am using 8mm bolts and a couple of nuts. you should be able to change out coils still with the locating cone bolted to the chassis.

[double_d69 Member Find all posts View Profile Close double_d69]

Re: Upper control arms and front end travel.

wicked thread.

this is exactly what i'm planning on doing. i currently have the OME set up with 885's and the N140S (soft and comfy) and the 896's with the N74E (80S shocks) somewhere a long the lines the sway bar fell off. heaps more travel out of the rear with no swaybar. just use sway bar disconnects.

at this stage, i'm about 70mm and 90mm above standard, being about 805mm in the front and 865mm in the rear. i have no winch yet.

i was looking at going the snake 1" front strut spacer and a rear coil spacer to match. my coils (896's) now come loose at full droop. another inch of droop and i reckon i can take the coil out. upper links on the rear haven't touched the tank yet. i haven't noticed the rear diff move accross as much yet.

i keep seeing all these 120 platforms overin the states with mega lifts and 35" and 37" tyres. but we can't do BL over here, so i'm happy with a 3"-4" lift, with some 285's and some half descent travel.

i've been looking at the UCA Mick's got, (can you PM a ball park of price landed) and also wondering about the front diff drop. i'm also not sure how much room there is for a diff drop and front swaybar drop between the BD bash plate i have.

please let us know how you progress with this.

cheers

How are your brake lines looking? They would be pretty tight at full flex?