AT3, Pirelli, BFG who has changed from 1 of these brands to 1 of the others?

[brogers Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close brogers]

Gee i thought that increasing the footprint was the main goal.Looks like i have been wasting my time letting my tyres down then.??????(LOL)

Hi Slackdog,

Appropriately lowering tyre pressures does indeed increase the size of a tyres footprint, but not quite in the way most people think.

The real benefit comes by increasing the tyre footprint in the "Foward-Aft" (ie a lengthwise) direction, rather than "bagging out" or bulging in an "east west" (ie sideways) direction.

A tyre, at normal road pressures, has a footprint little more than the size of an adult hand. When you think about it, we are driving a huge vehicle with little more than four hands on the tar. By lowering the pressure, you actually want the tyre to flatten such that you have more of the tread in contact with the ground, and thus reduce pressure exerted on the terrain.

If the tyre "bagges" out, or bulges excessively, in a normal tyre you end up with the thinner and weaker sidewall bulging and becoming exposed to sticks and punctures through the sidewall. You actually need to almost flatten a tyre if your aim is to have thesidewall bulge such that it contacts the terrain, and then you run the risk of rolling the tyre off the rim.

National parks used to recommend that 4wds going to Moreton Island and Fraser Island etc lower tyre pressures, however there were a number of accidents attributed to tyres rolling off the rims, and in some instances, insurance companies claimed that the driver was knowingly driving the vehicle with tyre pressures outside manufacturer recommnendations. National Parks (or whatever they are now callled now in Queensland...Dept of Environment etc) were instructed to remove all references to reducing tyre pressures.

However, we all know that appropriately reducing tyre pressures (within reason) and then driving accordingly, does dramatically improve a vehicles ability to tackle softer terrain......but this is due to a lenghthing of the tyres footprint....not a bulging of the tyre.

Good offroad tyres have stronger sidewalls, and thus don't "bulge" out sideways as much when the pressure is lowered, but this is exactly what you want, to ensure you don't "stake" the sidewall of the tyre....

Does that help?...I hope I haven't confused anyone.

[slackdog Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slackdog]

Thats what i mean , to allow the tyre to flatten out length ways you have to decrease the pressure, which in turn baggs the tyre.With a bfg you have to let more air out to do this because of the tri-guard side wall which is stronger. The reason most tyres roll from rims is sudden changes of direction with low pressures and the 100 series criuser was really bad for it when they first come out.I guess we are talking about the same thing in a round about way....

Rob

[Bellyup Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bellyup]

There was some talk that the cheap Coopers weren't made in the US - any one know for sure?
I have the BFG A/T on mine and I do alot of highway driving before getting anywhere, no problems so far at 40k but they are noisier now than when new. I did notice that you have to "drive" the car more than with the Grandtreks. My local Coopers dealer is quoting $400 ea for the 265/17 AT3's - is that normal?
Bruce.

[PradOz Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close PradOz]

Told by local dealer that cooper rrp is $360ea but up to each what they sell them for Guess u be paying a premium for where u live

[brogers Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close brogers]

Some quotes from Brisbane today (prices are each, fitted and balanced.

Size: 265/65/17

Bridgestone Dueller D697 (Load 116, Speed "S") $306
BF Goodrich A/T (Load 120, Speed "S") $349
Cooper AT3 (Load 120, Speed "R") $359 (Prado tyre Plackard on the driver side B pillar indicates minimum required speed rating is "S"...so the Cooper AT3 do not meet Toyota specifications for the 150 Prado D4D GXL)
Yokohoma Geolander A/T GO12 (Load 112, Speed "H") $340 (Speed rating "H" ...this exceeds speed rating "S" significantly)
Dunlop AT20 (as fitted when new, load 112, speed "S") $329

Anyway, thats current prices, no negotiating, no questions, just quotes over the phone from a few tyre places around Brisbane if anyone is interested

[Dusty74 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dusty74]

Just add two things, AT3 come in passenger and light truck construction so make sure your quoted the right one. Placards are a recommendation, don't be put off with lower speed rating ( just not below N, that is illegal apparently)

Cheers,
Dusty

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

FYI, the Pirelli Scorpion ATR won Australian 4WD Action's AT tyre test last year, ahead of Cooper STmaxx and BFG AT: http://www.actiontyres.com.au/_blog/...ine_Tyre_Test/
Unfortunately, the Cooper AT3 wasn't included in that comparison. Seems like a good result for a "Ferrari" tyre but they do not make a LT tyre in a 17inch size. http://www.pirelli.com/tyre/au/en/su...MMER%26use%3D1

[brogers Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close brogers]

Tyre prices

Thanks for the info folks.

Pirelli Scorpion ATR 265/65/17 fitted and balanced $315 in Brisbane

I have heard that the Pirrilli Scorpion tyres don't last very long compared to some of the others?
(Unfortunately, tyre durability did not feature in the tyre test, and this is difficult as I expect that is tyically going to take 50,000-80,000 km of identical terrain, driving and vehicles etc to get some meaningful results)

I'm starting to lean towards the Bridgestone D697 ...they are LT constuction and at $306ea seem to be a better price (and maybe less when negotiating a set of 5 tyres?)....any thoughts/comments are appreciated once again?

[Ghost Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ghost]

I went from grand treks to BFG ATKO's, I love them! Performed flawlessly so far have had them on for close to 20,000k now. Wearing awesomely, performed great offroad last week, this included beach, mud and gravel.

[brogers Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close brogers]

Thanks Ghost,

Great info thanks

How about road/highway noise?

What size (are they 265/65/17) and what approx $ each?

kind regards,

B

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Guys, some of you are comparing apples with oranges here as far as speed ratings go. When comparing tyres load ratings need to be considered with each speed rating for a given tyre brand/model.
For example, the BFG's talked about in this thread have a load rating of 120 with a speed rating for the same tyre being S. The "120" indicates that the tyre can sustain 1400kg per tyre at the quoted speed. A load rating of 112 (as mentioned as the rating for TMC original equipment tyres within this thread) means the tyre can handle a load of 1120kg per tyre at the quoted speed rating.

Also, I was struggling to find a supplier of BFG's some years ago, and ended up being talked in to fitting the Scorpions to the front of my last vehicle. They wore very quickly, and I had to replace them with under 40,000kms. When compared to other tyres mentioned in this thread, the Scorpions ended up being twice the price of the others, in that they only had 1/2 the life. Ferrari tyres indeed!

[Pete67 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pete67]

I bought the Pirelli Atrs when I upgraded from the original 'highway' tyres. It was the recommendation from the tyre dealer because at that stage I didn't really know what sort of driving I would be doing.

I find them to be great tyres for on road use, they are quite, brake and handle wet roads very well.

Off road they drive well on dirt/gravel. I find with the right tyre pressure i can get through most situations ok but they dont clear mud well so of course struggle a bit due to that. Perhaps on a vehicle without traction control and all the other features the prados (150) have there would be a lot of other negatives.

As peterpilot said they don't come in LT and they supposedly wear quickly, which is actually good news as I wouldn't buy them again!! Not that they are a bad tyre, if you do 95% on road driving with the occasional off road excursion they are great but I have found myself doing a lot of reasonably difficult off road driving and feel I would benefit from a much tougher tyre. With an upcoming trip via every dirt road we can find I must admit I'm a bit nervous and hope they perform ok.

Ive already decised that my next buy will be the LT BFG ATs or the mud version.

[Pete67 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pete67]

I bought the Pirelli Atrs when I upgraded from the original 'highway' tyres. It was the recommendation from the tyre dealer because at that stage I didn't really know what sort of driving I would be doing.

I find them to be great tyres for on road use, they are quite, brake and handle wet roads very well.

Off road they drive well on dirt/gravel. I find with the right tyre pressure i can get through most situations ok but they dont clear mud well so of course struggle a bit due to that. Perhaps on a vehicle without traction control and all the other features the prados (150) have there would be a lot of other negatives.

As peterpilot said they don't come in LT and they supposedly wear quickly, which is actually good news as I wouldn't buy them again!! Not that they are a bad tyre, if you do 95% on road driving with the occasional off road excursion they are great but I have found myself doing a lot of reasonably difficult off road driving and feel I would benefit from a much tougher tyre. With an upcoming trip via every dirt road we can find I must admit I'm a bit nervous and hope they perform ok.

Ive already decided that my next buy will be the LT BFG ATs or the mud version.

[Ghost Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ghost]

Thanks Ghost,

Great info thanks

How about road/highway noise?

What size (are they 265/65/17) and what approx $ each?

kind regards,

B

Hey b, highway noise is a little more than the grad treks, but in no way to loud. They are 265 65 r17 and paid $365/ tyre from Jax quick fit. Which I though was more than reasonable. I am tossing up once these wear out (which will be a while) getting an engineers cert to allow me to go to 265 70r 17 or I'm also looking at doing the mod to the front brakes to allow me to fit 16" rims

[braddo Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close braddo]

I bought the Pirelli Atrs when I upgraded from the original 'highway' tyres. It was the recommendation from the tyre dealer because at that stage I didn't really know what sort of driving I would be doing.

I find them to be great tyres for on road use, they are quite, brake and handle wet roads very well.

Off road they drive well on dirt/gravel. I find with the right tyre pressure i can get through most situations ok but they dont clear mud well so of course struggle a bit due to that. Perhaps on a vehicle without traction control and all the other features the prados (150) have there would be a lot of other negatives.

As peterpilot said they don't come in LT and they supposedly wear quickly, which is actually good news as I wouldn't buy them again!! Not that they are a bad tyre, if you do 95% on road driving with the occasional off road excursion they are great but I have found myself doing a lot of reasonably difficult off road driving and feel I would benefit from a much tougher tyre. With an upcoming trip via every dirt road we can find I must admit I'm a bit nervous and hope they perform ok.

Ive already decised that my next buy will be the LT BFG ATs or the mud version.

I agree with most of what you posted, but I've found the Scorpions quite good and are showing little signs of wear after 50,000 km!

I will be getting a more aggressive tyre next time though- most likely BFG ATs in LT construction. I was thinking of getting them for this year's GTG, but I probably won't need them before then!