smartbar bullbar

[ntp]

Just so this thread doesn't morph into a question about bullbars and pedestrians. If you want to talk about bullbar safety, post here: New Standards For Pedestrian Friendly Bullbars.

As a corollary to smart bullbars, I'd like to see 'smart pedestrian' rules implemented too.

[D4D]

You can make a point without getting abusive.

Abusive? I was stating a fact?

[photoprado]

I'm moving to Perth soon and driving from Brisbane to Perth which is the main reason I want a bar. Shame there isn't a bar that you can quickly put on and take off for the big trips.

In that case, I think I'd get a bar fitted just before you leave. You will need to sort out lift as well.

Steel vs smartbar is your choice. Steel + suspension is going to be dearer than smartbar + AJ120 spacers. You'll have to make up your own mind on that.

[D4D]

I'm sorry but I will be opening my mouth and I will be talking crap.

You have demonstrated this ability well

[AJ120]

To be really honest, if money was no object I would be likely to go for the TJM T13 and a lift kit but most of my off road driving is on sand islands like Fraser and Morton etc. and I have never needed the extra clearance so I am a bit reluctant to pay for the lift just for the bar install.

If the cost of a lift is an issue I might be able to help you there. I make a strut spacer that will give approx 12mm lift, not sure about how much the bar would drop the front but I would think T13 with strut spacer would sit pretty damn close to smartbar without spacer, if not a bit higher even. Have a look here http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...-Strut-spacers Its a pretty cheap way to maintain ride height.

Regards responsibilies if you strike an animal, well if its dead you just need to remove it from the road, if its alive you either need to get it to medical attention, get someone (ranger or police) to destroy it, or euthenaise it yourself.

My point here is that if a smartbar is more pedestrian friendly then it must be more roo freindly, ie. less likely to kill a Roo but still injure it and therefore you need to deal with it. Now for a country boy who has been roo shooting and rabbiting since a lad it's not such a big deal. But many "city slickers" may have never had cause to take the life of an animal before, and may find putting an injured animal out of its misery a very traumatic experience, especially with a wife and tin lids in the car.

As I said, something to consider at least.

Cheers Andrew

[krypto]

Before you open your mouth and talk crap again, drop down to ARB and have a look at the inbuilt crush cans in an airbag compatible bar.

You can make a point without getting abusive.

[photoprado]

I might be wrong but I don't think pedestrian safety is a consideration for anyone that goes for a steel bar. I know I'm going to get shot down again but I really think steel bars are dangerous in the city, it is a big consideration for me as the idiots are always jumping out in front of me.

I agree with this, even though I have a steel bar on my 120.

Saving grace is the 120 is not a daily driver. It gets a regular run around the 'burbs to keep the battery charged and the tyres round, but it's first and foremost a trip car. 95%+ of it's kms are outside the metro area.

Klonking a pedestrian with any car is pretty dangerous for the pedestrian, even with the latest 'pedestrian friendly' vehicles. Adding a steel bar to the mix tilts the scales against the pedestrian something awful.

So Jasen, where are you driving this Prado?

[ntp]

I might be wrong but I don't think pedestrian safety is a consideration for anyone that goes for a steel bar.

I think any metal object travelling at 15 metres per second or higher is a serious risk to any person. Buses and trams don't have bullbars, yet I'm aware of plenty of cases of pedestrians suffering serious injury (and death) as a result of being hit by one.

Maybe they don't take their pedestrian safety too seriously either?

BTW - you're not related to Harold Scruby are you?

[D4D]

I think the crush zone is the biggest issue here. With the smart bar it will absorb some of the energy before the crumple zone is activated so there is more chance of less damage to the car. With some of the other bars they are very rigid and the crumple zone is more likely to be activated and damage the car. But like i said before this is only a consideration for a real big hit and very unlikely.

Before you open your mouth and talk crap again, drop down to ARB and have a look at the inbuilt crush cans in an airbag compatible bar.

[maxjj]

the other thing is the hit to fuel economy, it cannot be just weight, there must be a factor of the aero of the front of car being upset. Based on the vehicles I have had with bullbar, fuel economy went up nearly 1ltr/100km.

[hulbyw]

4WD Action did a comparison a while back and the SmartBar actually seemed to fare quite well in the strength test. I have emailed SmartBars to ask the weight of their standard bar and also the winch bar (plastic bar with steel cradle) I will also be asking ARB and TJM the weight of their bars. Not excited about the look of the SmartBar however if it saves a significant amount of weight and gives me protection then I may have to brave the ribbing from my 4wd mates (oh, and the 4wd folks that look after my Prado etc etc) and bite the bullet. Used to have a Sovereign bar on my 120 which did its best to fall off on the Canning (pre the recall) so I prefer function over form nowadays.
Cheers..........Wayne

[maxjj]

Something else to consider, irrespective of what bar, due to airbag and other front crash safety, there is a sacrificial crush zone or crumble zone. So the design must have some give in it somewhere.

[robbo792]

What are the reasons to fit something to the front of our vehicles;

- protection - Maintain our vehicle to a drivable standard following an impact.
- fitment - Increase ability to fit the required accessories.
- approach - Improve approach angle.

So the real question is which bar does the above better and I think plastic in all area with the exemption off approach (I have been unable to find one with the same advantages in this area as say an ARB or TJM steel variant).

I have absolutely no evidence that a plastic bar would provide better front end protection then a steel bar, but then I would challenge anyone to provide the same with a steel one. Saying that I have hit 15 roos with my TJM steel bar at speeds from 40 through to 120 Ks and I have always driven away only confirms TJM steel bars work as advertised.

If plastic ones perform as advertised then you get the same result (minus the approach benefits) without the added weight.

If I could prove without a doubt that plastic ones work as well then the only real consideration would be do I get the improved approach angel at the cost of x KG (depending on your requirements it may be well worth it).

When it comes to pedestrians safely I would hope that no one would choose a more dangerous product base solely on looks alone (again I'm making an assumption that this product works as advertised)

Food for thought

[maxjj]

Doesn`t sound like anyone crash with a roo or wallaby is compabarable to another.

A few work Colleagues over the years have hit big grey roos, on the run the the beach for an early morning start fishing with boats, all cars with steel, alloy or smartbar where write off`s, but all were able to get to the beach fish and drive home again.

Have hit a full sized wallaby with the Jackaroo at 80km/hr, without bullbar, no damage except for a bit of paint. The plastic/fibre glass bumper absorbed it, I guess. The thump stays with you I can still remember it.

I would think with steel, if you bent it a bit, it could pull the chassis out of shape. At least with smartbar, chances are it will give.

[Dusty74]

If you think I have false or misguided information I'd really appreciate you help before I go ahead with getting a bar.

Hi Jasen,
Just your points about how fragile steel bars are. I had a mate who thought very similar to yourself, in that bull bars wouldn't prevent damage to your car at highway speeds. I can say, without question, on many occasions that this is simply not true. As recent as this xmas period, driving on the national highway (not some country backroad) we hit a medium sized roo (40-50kgs) at 110km/h. The resulting damage was the plexiglass number late and unfortunately the roo. For the very reason for having the bar (vehicle protection), I agree pedestrian safety will be compromised to a certain degree, but any bar will degraded how the original car will perform in this area.
And finally, a company's own crash test film doesn't really stack up in my opinion, yes some clever footage but seriously, a test involving bars from all manufacturer's conducted by an independent body would hold up better. What the footage doesn't show is damaged sustained to the vehicle regardless of where the bullbar ends up.
In saying all this, there's certainly a place for the smart bar, and like I said earlier, it comes down to a personal, hopefully well informed choice. To each his own and all that!

Cheers,
Dusty