Is the 150 showing any signs of cracked inner guards

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday AJ120

I will probably be flamed for trying to be smartie but i am only pointing out an observation!

If you look at the pics closely you will notice that both doors on the drivers side along with the front bumper are high to the body lines and on the passengers side the doors and the bumper are lower!

This is due to chassis twist and you will always have good articulation on the rear axle due to it being a live axle.

I am aware that you get body twist on such angles once the suspension bottoms out but neither your front or rear have reached the bump stops!

Cheers.

[Gordon Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gordon]

Good to know I'm not the only one surfing ebay for asbestos clothing. Good eyes btw.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

This is the best i could come up with

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Jr-Fi...item4aba2adb9b

Lol

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Gday AJ120

If you look at the pics closely you will notice that both doors on the drivers side along with the front bumper are high to the body lines and on the passengers side the doors and the bumper are lower!

I have no idea what you are talking about here

This is due to chassis twist and you will always have good articulation on the rear axle due to it being a live axle.

So whats your point? Yes the chassis on all vehicles twists. Thanks for agreeing with me that articulation and wheel travel is not limited by having stiff springs, rather the individual set up of each vehicle.

I am aware that you get body twist on such angles once the suspension bottoms out but neither your front or rear have reached the bump stops!

Cheers.

No you get body twist all the time, on any vehicle regardless of the suspension bottoming out.

Where can I buy those xray vision glasses you are wearing? How can you tell that the bump stops haven't been reached just by looking at those pictures?

I really don't understand what point you are trying to make with that post, I posted the pics a bit toungue in cheek to show that lifting wheels is not just because you have heavier springs.

Gordon, will be interesting to hear how you go on Madigans on the Bike!

Cheers Andrew

[Gordon Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gordon]

Have a cuppatea AJ, it's just a car.

neither your front or rear have reached the bump stops Cheers.

This is the main point. Combined with my talk of lifting wheels leading AJ to getting all twisted. If the wheels lift before the suspension hits the bumps stops then you've reduced your ability to articulate.

AJ, with your combination of springs and weight you're able to articulate well enough and you're happy with that, doesn't make the notion of stiffer springs leading to less articulation wrong, just means my generalisation isn't that relevant to you.

The takeaway (& what I should have said in the first place just had trouble with my ... erm ... articulation) is that if the springs are too stiff for the car then the wheels will left too early.

G.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Weight vs suspension is probably the issue. My guesstimate is that a fully loaded up Prado with all the goodies is around 250-300kg more than standard. This probably balances out the stiffer springs. It would be interesting to compare fully loaded ride height and how different that is between the different vehicles.

Shocks impact handling. There's no denying that the standard shocks are a bit low on rebound control, my biggest fear in replacing them is that I end up with a super stiff ride which would only make matters worse for the ride and stress on the vehicle. Back to my cup of tea...

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

As my vehicle is always at GVM, I've got stiffer suspension.

I have noticed that it is sometimes still a little harsh though, most noticeable after towing when I remove the weight from the ball.

I wouldn't mind softer springs but then I'd probably lose a lot of clearance and find it wallowy.

Horses for courses I suppose.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

I wouldn't mind softer springs but then I'd probably lose a lot of clearance and find it wallowy.
Horses for courses I suppose.

The rides really the balance between springs and shocks, and why its important to get a matched setup.

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

I think some of you blokes may have been in the sun too long.

I've had some nice & soft tall springs made up to restore height in the rear (same rate as OE and because I don't overload I can use original shocks - and the warranty they came with).

Gordon,
By far the biggest restriction to wheel travel and flex is OE shocks. They are too short and restrict down travel, which in turn restricts flex. Aftermarket shock absorbers are (generally) longer and offer more articulation, better control and better fade resistance.

I agree that long, compliant springs do give more articulation than shorter, stiffer springs. This is why I prefer springs with lower spring rates that are longer and more compliant, like those produced by Dobinsons, RidePro and OME. There's no denying the amount of flex 8608 has achieved in his "SIK-120" which features extensive suspension modifications to take full advantage of very long and compliant Dobinson springs:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post355281

I am aware that you get body twist on such angles once the suspension bottoms out but neither your front or rear have reached the bump stops!

I reckon if Andrew looks at his bumpstop contact areas on the rear diff housing and at the front lower control arms, there'll be plenty of evidence where his suspension has fully compressed to the bumpstop limit. He also has the advantage of longer aftermarket shocks for better down travel which equates to better total wheel travel and in turn better flex.

IIRC, Andrew has OME front springs, which are a very similar spring rate to OE springs, but longer, making Andrew's set up far from being stiff. Kings Springs, Lovells and a few others have stiffer, shorter springs to carry weight. Check the Suspension Database for details:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...nsion-Database

As far as cracking the guards is concerned (we may have deviated just a little OT in this thread), it seems to be a combination of factors that is causing them and Toyota are burying their head in the sand because they have no solution or easy fix. This is really no different to the recall Toyota issued on the 120 Series Sovereign bullbar mounting brackets, which were cracking under "severe" conditions, but the solution was simple. With cracking inner guards, the fix is not so easy.

[CQ_Prado Member Find all posts View Profile Close CQ_Prado]

What is the latest model this has been noticed on..

I'm wondering if they've fixed it along the way.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Just to get this thread back on topic, as I said in my first post the problem with the gaurds (like most problems in life) is most likely caused by a combination of a number of factors.

Vehicle design could be better? Of course it could or else no one would have an issue.

Extra weight caused the issue? It must have some effect, but how much is the question.

Suspension too stiff of badly set up? It important to get this correct, not sure what Scniffs rides like but it could be a factor.

Tyre Pressure? It's part of the suspension of the vehicle, get it wrong and it transfers more stress onto the vehicle.

Driver error or driving too fast? Only Scniff knows how he drives, although what one person thinks is reasonable may not seem reasonable to the next person.

Bad luck? maybe his car had a bad batch of steel they pressed the panels out of, or something unlucky happened on the trails.

When travelling to place like the Cape, and the Kimberly and across the Tanami you are pushing your machinery to extreme limits in some cases, it a big tough unforgiving country. Get a couple of the points above wrong, or even all of them just slightly wrong and things are going to break.

Suspension, tyres, tyre pressure, speed, wheel placement, get all of these things correct and chances are you won't have a problem. The real question is which of the possible problems has the most effect and which have only had minimal effect? If we knew the answer to that we wouldn't be having this debate would we.

Cheers Andrew

[Gordon Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gordon]

By far the biggest restriction to wheel travel and flex is OE shocks. They are too short and restrict down travel, which in turn restricts flex. Aftermarket shock absorbers are (generally) longer and offer more articulation

That's not very correct bro.

The front of the Prado has a coilover suspension design (oft confused with MacPherson struts) which top & bottom out before the shock, so aftermarket shocks will not make any difference to travel at the front.

The rear shocks I've measured including OME and Koni RAID for Prados and various others for other cars were all exactly the same effective extended length. Shocked me initially I gotta say, but on reflection, the limiting factor should be the suspension design otherwise you get into issues around brake hose length & propeller shaft angle.. not to mention the alignment of your rear axle.

In short you can't really talk about longer shocks & more wheel travel without talking about heavily modified vehicles. Unless you're inadvertently talking about timebombs.

Otherwise I agree with you & particularly where we've gotten sidelined by arguments about what works. The point of this thread (as AJ summarises) is to explore & provide insight - for people who's expensive rides are falling to bits - reasons for it and ways around it. Stiff suspension, bullbars, tyre pressures, speed & terrain all contribute... there's enough evidence in here to make that irrefutable. Doesn't make everyone who has bullbars, OME springs and ARB bullbars wrong, just means they work for some people and not for others. Depends on the use your car receives, where you live, how your drive etc etc.

This gets frustrating (the argument as much as the firm suspension) because it's not helpful and digresses into banter about "why everyone should do the same as me", which distracts and confuses the people who are affected by the problems and are looking for solutions.

Oh no I though this one was coming to a close....

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

"why everyone should do the same as me"

Silly me, I thought that was your point all along...

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

What is the latest model this has been noticed on..

I'm wondering if they've fixed it along the way.

For all the talk in this thread there only seems to be 1 confirmed case, that is one PP member with the issue that has posted pics. And one other non Pradopoint member has been mentioned. Which makes you wonder with all the 150's on PP with bullbars and suspension mods and what not as too why the problem is seemingly so limited?

Cheers Andrew

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

For all the talk in this thread there only seems to be 1 confirmed case, that is one PP member with the issue that has posted pics. And one other non Pradopoint member has been mentioned. Which makes you wonder with all the 150's on PP with bullbars and suspension mods and what not as too why the problem is seemingly so limited?

Cheers Andrew

I know of one other case in a 150... but after driving with him on Saturday... I'm actually at a loss as to why only the guards have cracked... I can only assume the rest of the body and chassis will explode soon.