Aftermarket front recovery points for 150 Series

[dreamon Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dreamon]

I went into ARB Osborne Park yesterday and the guy said they don't sell any "rated" recovery points for the 150 series Prado as none available meet Australian Safety Standards and he suggested a (BRK8) Dynamina Bridal $99.75) which links the two factory tow/tiedown points and distributes the load evenly between them and gives you a central point to pull from. So this is what I purchased and if hopefully will get to see how it works tomorrow at Lancelin.

[dermie75 Member Find all posts View Profile Close dermie75]

Recovery points are much like maxtrax. They cost next to nothing to make but suckers like you and I will pay 10x the price it costs them to make. Haha

True that William!

[Ryzz Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryzz]

Richo, do you have pics of the rating stamp you speak of on your outback ideas recovery points? We seem to have a discrepancy here that's making damienandwendy upset.

I've got the 150 outback points and can confirm they have NO rating stamp on them anywhere. These are genuine, I got them from manell motors a few months back. Hope this helps.

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

Ok fellas, in the interests of constructive discussion lets keep it on the recovery points.

A few things to note, regardless of the maker, supplier, distributor - here on PP the use of such terms like "rated" causes firey discussion from all directions. A "rated" recovery device is a hard call for manufacturers as lots of factors come into play during recoveries and the methods used there in and all of them placing strain in some way on the after market hooks (not always in the directions they were intended to get this load. Subsequently, damge to property, plant or person(s) can result from this misuse.

In effect, manufacturers are reluctant to place "ratings" on such equipment due to liability! Yes, not many people will be able to get places like ARB, Toyota, or other large firms to admit, guarrantee there items...

There are many threads on rated or lack there of rated and most (if not all manufactures recovery products). Please do not think that a verbal communication, without prooving document is enough.

William,
I can see your arguement comes from many previous threads on PP regarding rated points and I tend to agree, without proof of rating - its not rated. So far, its all word of mouth...

Richo,
if you have a photo showning a "rating" then please post it for all to see!

Damien,
you are in contact with chris, I have dealt with him before regarding a battery tray of his (in another thread on PP) he seems like a good guy and i'm sure if you asked him to provide a photo or two which included the "rating" then he would oblige?

In my opinion, if it is not stamped (and labelled in an approved ISO/Australian standard or manner) then the arguement is mute! It is not rated!

Keep it civil!

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

UPDATE:

I have now had the pleasure of reading two emails from Chris and the boys at fnb4wd. In both emails, it is stated that he/they sell genuine Outback Ideas recovery points. Both of these emails, state that genuine outback ideas recovery points are not rated. The manufacturer of genuine outback ideas recovery points does not rate his product.

This is inline with previous threads on PP in the 120 and 90 sections regarding outback ideas recovery points.

I notice that one or two members have been convinced otherwise by further members in this thread that it is the other way around, and subsequently changed there tune. So in the interests of ending this one here...

Furthermore, if anyone has other thoughts, or believes differently - then you are advised to provide proof in the form of documentation and certificates. It is also advised that reputable manufacturers are not in the habit of advertising, stating or selling their products as "rated" and those that do open themselves to liability and litigation.

Persons purchasing "rated" points that are not accompanied by documentation and certificates (or references thereof) are being mislead.

I would like to thank Chris and the boys for their prompt replies to our queries, might be time to organise a day trip up to your shop!

Matt

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Here Here Matty

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

UPDATE:

I have now had the pleasure of reading two emails from Chris and the boys at fnb4wd. In both emails, it is stated that he/they sell genuine Outback Ideas recovery points. Both of these emails, state that genuine outback ideas recovery points are not rated. The manufacturer of genuine outback ideas recovery points does not rate his product.

This is inline with previous threads on PP in the 120 and 90 sections regarding outback ideas recovery points.

I notice that one or two members have been convinced otherwise by further members in this thread that it is the other way around, and subsequently changed there tune. So in the interests of ending this one here...

Furthermore, if anyone has other thoughts, or believes differently - then you are advised to provide proof in the form of documentation and certificates. It is also advised that reputable manufacturers are not in the habit of advertising, stating or selling their products as "rated" and those that do open themselves to liability and litigation.

Persons purchasing "rated" points that are not accompanied by documentation and certificates (or references thereof) are being mislead.

I would like to thank Chris and the boys for their prompt replies to our queries, might be time to organise a day trip up to your shop!

Matt

Outback Ideas recovery points ARE rated by the information given to me by John from Outback Idea's

He will not stamp or label every point he makes he said.

I am getting the certificates to re-assure Prado Pointers


Giles

Will have them up hopefully in an hour or two.

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

This is regarding the 150 Points.



All Outback Ideas have been tested,A copy of the certificate is available if you require it.

!!! Admin note!!! THIS IS NOT the 150 recovery point, it is the "universal" point that does not fit the 150.. Correct information is required here when claiming it as a 150 series point, this is the info direct from Outback Ideas.!!

[William Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close William]

Thank you for the confirmation on that giles

[Giles Member Find all posts View Profile Close Giles]

Thank you for the confirmation on that giles

My pleasure

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

I repectlyfully and urgently request that the moderator team be contacted my John from Outback Ideas directly.

For clarification of this matter, I have information from you Giles stating that this is for the Outback ideas recovery point and it is rated. However, there are other discussions ongoing which suggest this document relates to the tow point, and is no more for recovery than a tow hitch with tow ball is for recovery.

As the moderators are informed of details, we will update.

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

with all respect, isn't it your job to contact John at outback ideas if you so urgently want to know this information?

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Interestingy the way I read that certificate theat you posted Giles, it tells me that they are NOT rated. They were tested to destruction, at 89.2kn or roughly 20,000lb or approx 9000kg when they failed due to bolts breaking from the recovery point bending. One of the things that is almost never mentioned about "rated" recovery points is that it has to be adequately rated. A point rated to 100lb might be rated, but is useless as the rating is far to low. Anyway the figure I have heard for these and most other recovery points is 10,000lb so lets assume that is the figure. It failed completely at almost twice this force, but it gives no indication of when it started to deform.

Now lets look at something that is rated and highly regulated, shackles. A 4.7 tonne rated shackle needs to achieve an Australian standard breaking strain no less than 28.5 tonne! So comparing a shackle to the recovery point (10,000lb is roughly 4.5tonne) the recovery point falls well shoart of that standard.

All this aside the real clincher for me is the column on the right WLL, working load limit, it says not applicable. My understanding is the rating for slings and shackles and almost anything else, the rating is expressed as the WLL (working load limit) or the SWL (safe working limit). If it doesn't have a WLL then how can it be "rated".
Added to that if the WLL is not marked on each individual recovery point, regardless of any testing then it is not rated, assuming we apply similar rules to all other lifting type equipment.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying they aren't adequate or are unsafe, I will leave that to each individual to decide for themselves. The problem is people want "rated" recovery points when as far as I know no Australian standard exists for recovery points. Personally I think we should all drop the term "rated" and talk about adequate, or suitable, or safe recovery points.

It has been quite a while since I did any training around lifting and shackles and the like, so if anything I have written above is blatently wrong feel free to correct me.

Cheers Andrew

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

Thankyou Andrew.

Wooley,
If it was my job, too find out these details I would be paid for it... unfortunately, i am not! so in the interest of trying to get the right people to tell YOU the truth, why should I do the leg work? As it is my inbox is filling with details along the exact same line as Andrews post - so i ask you what are you doing about it all?

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

Yeah no, I understand exactly where you're coming from, but this thread seems to be going in circles, and I feel like people should draw their own conclusions as I agree 100% with Andrew, as there is no Australian standard for recovery points a rating is a bit useless and not available.
Testing something to destruction is not a great indication of what kind of a force you can exert on something time and time again.
Do you want me to do something about? Do you want me to harass the outback ideas guy for answers? :P