Manual vs Auto Fuel Consumption Offroad

[Newton Metre Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Newton Metre]

Considering selling my HZJ105R 5spd manual to get new Prado 150 D4D, probably a GX.
Auto vs Manual - Reliability & Strength & Fuel economy differences, especially off road on desert travel where I am looking to maximise fuel range eg Canning and Len Beadell Bomb roads.
Has anyone been on long desert trek eg Canning Stock Route or Simpson Desert and compared manual vs auto fuel consumption off road in otherwise similar modern 4wds? Fuel Range an important consideration.

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

My mate has a manual GX and I have an auto GXL. When we travel we both tow campers that weigh around 1500kg and get pretty similar fuel consumption, although I seem to get slightly better some of the time but there's really not much in it.

The auto has a slightly higher final ratio than the manual. I would say fuel consumption is very similar, the biggest difference will come from the extras that you add.

[Newton Metre Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Newton Metre]

Thanks krypto. Is this Off Road, eg sand, dunes, gravel or dirt or just higher speed bitumen and gravel roads?

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

In a new 150, you will find the manual will save you some fuel, how much depends on how you drive it, and the conditions it's driven in, eg hills & soft sand, auto will increase revs one way or another compared to the manual is locked in. In these conditions, you would find manual more economical.
If you did a trip on the highway at 100k no hills, there would be bugger all difference.
Having 6 gears rather than 5 helps it too.

[jss Moderated member Find all posts View Profile Close jss]

Autos have always been slightly less fuel efficient than manuals in any car. But for the covenience of a modern auto i wouldn't even think twice about the difference in consumption. Just carry an extra 5% spare fuel. Not that the difference would even be that much. JMO

Cheers
James

[cbm8880 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cbm8880]

According to the fuel data, the manual is slightly less efficient that the auto in the 150 (TD). It's the first vehicle where I've seen that as the case, but that's what they're spriuking.

[tonykarter15 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tonykarter15]

One thing to consider is clutch wear in a manual. The clutches are the weak point in the prado's to make them easier to drive.
My 120 series is a manual however I have just ordered a 150 series auto because of the clutch. Further to this, in the current model, the auto feels a quicker car as well.

[shodown Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shodown]

One thing to consider is clutch wear in a manual. The clutches are the weak point in the prado's to make them easier to drive.
My 120 series is a manual however I have just ordered a 150 series auto because of the clutch. Further to this, in the current model, the auto feels a quicker car as well.

I drove a brand new 2013 KDJ150 GX Auto with 1500km's on it. I thought the off the line acceleration was absolutely shithouse to be honest... My 2009 KDJ150 GX Manual has much better acceleration.

That said, it was a lot nicer (read EASIER) to drive than mine.....

[Newton Metre Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Newton Metre]

I was not aware of any weakness in the clutch in the Prado. Has there been any improvements made in the 150 series in this respect?.
I have heard of heat build up being quite significant in many autos in soft beach sand & Simpson Desert crossings especially if left in high range.
Is a transmission cooler advisable?

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Thanks krypto. Is this Off Road, eg sand, dunes, gravel or dirt or just higher speed bitumen and gravel roads?

Combination of gravel, bitumen and off road.

I would definitely fit a transmission cooler, it's made a big difference when the car is working hard.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

One thing to consider is clutch wear in a manual. The clutches are the weak point in the prado's to make them easier to drive.
My 120 series is a manual however I have just ordered a 150 series auto because of the clutch. Further to this, in the current model, the auto feels a quicker car as well.

Weak point? Clutches in prados have lasted beyond 250,000klms......

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

I would have thought that the clutch would be an issue in any of these new modern high output 4cyl diesels, no matter what the make of vehicle it is.... The Manufacturers seem to design them with too high of a 1st gear and this is where the problem starts if u tow a heavy load. Toyota/Nissan/Mazda/Ford.. they're all the same. Even though they may be able to tow 3T, but if u can't take off in 1st gear in a manual on any sort of a incline, then it's towing capacity is not much good to u. The designers need to have a lower the 1st gear for the manuals which will allow u to take off on most inclines w/o riding the clutch when towing a heavy load..... but, this is just what I have observed and others may see things differently....
For me these days, it's an Auto without a doubt.....

The overheating of the Autos in sand, etc driving was only in the earlier Prados and I think that's been solved..... but then again I may be mis-taken

[tonykarter15 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tonykarter15]

My clutch lasted 100,000 and is pretty much stuffed. Talking to a couple of other 120 prado manual owners locally, they have all replaced clutches between 80,000-140,000 kms.
On the D4D models, Toyota use graffite lubricant on the thrust bearing and over time as the lubricant wears, the clutch pedal gets progressively heavier as well.

I agree with you Rob, towing from 1st on any hill requires riding the clutch a little to take off which negates the towing ability of the car.

I think a modern auto with manual sports shift is the way to go. I have just ordered a 150 and that was the decision I made from what I learnt with a manual 120 series.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

I would have thought that the clutch would be an issue in any of these new modern high output 4cyl diesels, no matter what the make of vehicle it is.... The Manufacturers seem to design them with too high of a 1st gear and this is where the problem starts if u tow a heavy load. Toyota/Nissan/Mazda/Ford.. they're all the same. Even though they may be able to tow 3T, but if u can't take off in 1st gear in a manual on any sort of a incline, then it's towing capacity is not much good to u. The designers need to have a lower the 1st gear for the manuals which will allow u to take off on most inclines w/o riding the clutch when towing a heavy load..... but, this is just what I have observed and others may see things differently....
For me these days, it's an Auto without a doubt.....

The overheating of the Autos in sand, etc driving was only in the earlier Prados and I think that's been solved..... but then again I may be mis-taken

Actually they are very different, nissans are the weak ones. Particularly Navaras.
It more driving habit. Because I know someone that tows his boat, and as got 180k so far from a Navara even.
Diesels have plenty of torque, you need not rev& wear the clutch, do it all gently & slowly.
In a diesel, when towing & on a hill is one of the only times you should need some throttle as you let it out.
I find even with the old 1kz you can't stall it unless you really dump it fast. A tiny bit of throttle and let it out slowly, but not with any more than 1000 or so revs.
If ppl ride clutches, yes they will wear them out.

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

Actually they are very different, nissans are the weak ones. Particularly Navaras.
It more driving habit. Because I know someone that tows his boat, and as got 180k so far from a Navara even.
Diesels have plenty of torque, you need not rev& wear the clutch, do it all gently & slowly.
In a diesel, when towing & on a hill is one of the only times you should need some throttle as you let it out.
I find even with the old 1kz you can't stall it unless you really dump it fast. A tiny bit of throttle and let it out slowly, but not with any more than 1000 or so revs.
If ppl ride clutches, yes they will wear them out.

I drive a D22 Navara Manual and I can say with confidence that they are too high in 1st gear and when towing our 2T van (remembering the vehicle is rated to tow 3T), if I try to take off on any sort of incline, I'm struggling to take off. You either rev the motor and let the clutch out or ride the clutch.... both I reckon are not good for the clutch. You simply cannot just idle off the mark.... flat ground - yes. I've read that this is the same with a lot of the modern day High powered 4cyl Common Rail Diesels in other manufacturers. They simply need a lower 1st gear or need the torque curve changed. I could be wrong here, but I believe the torque on these modern diesels come in at a higher rev range to the pre CRD's.....


rob