RA61F 3rd gear crunching (6sp manual)

[5 RTBGS Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 5 RTBGS]

Hi all,
Has anyone else had an issue with their tranny occasionally 'crunching' when shifting into 3rd? (or any other gear)
I tried a search for similar issues and didn't come up with much...

Story: We recently bought our Prado S/H in Nov last year with 124k on it (it now has 134k) and during test drives and post purchase had noticed a slight 'crunch' when going into 3rd gear however we put it down at the time to maybe our unfamiliarity of this car and it's gear linkages - so we bought it anyway hoping it was 'just us' though lucky for us at the time of purchase we also bought an extended used car warranty which covers the gearbox - hopefully.

However now this crunching seems to happen more often than not and is now a very noticeable feel and sound when shifting into 3rd gear so we are getting rather concerned with it.

If anyone else has had this or a similar issue with their manual RA61F 6 speed, was it easy enough (and if able costs associated) for a tranny shop to;

Replace the 3rd syncro gear (most likely cause I suspect)?
Replace the tranny wholly and solely (though I can't find one anywhere, new or S/H...)?
or had their own rebuilt?

In the short term, I will be getting the oils changed soon in a hope this 'eases' the issue until I can get further insight to the cause and a remedy.

Sorry for the long winded post but just trying to find out some advice from fellow PP'ers to give to a tranny shop so I don't get taken for a ride with bull dust so to speak.

Thanks,
Craig.

[MacroP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MacroP]

You should find plenty of secondhand boxes on eBay. Being in Kal, I thought there should be plenty of donor cars around.

One of work colleagues is a mechanic and is a Toyota fanatic (even worse than me) so I'll ask him his thoughts at work tomorrow.

[5 RTBGS Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 5 RTBGS]

Thanks MacroP, Tried Ebay - nothing going there. Tried several wreckers (websites only) and nothing is mentioned other than a couple of places 'currently dismantling' a few 150 manuals... nothing specific to the RA61F.

Unfortunately Kal is not all that people think as innundated with 4x4 parts :/

I look forward to hearing if your work mates have some input to a cost effective and time efficient solution (seeing as this is our only car).

Cheers.

[batto Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close batto]

Hi 5 rtbgs, I was quoted $2500 for second hand ra61f and transfer for my 120, donor car had 124xxx Km. $3500 to have my box only rebuilt and north of $6500 fir a new box from local toyota dealer here in Alice Springs. Ended up pulling box and rebuilding myself at home, would guess about 10 hours labour, bearing and seal kit plus all synchros cost me $1200. All prices trade, needed hydraulic press but did not have a hoist.

Cheers Batto

[MacroP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MacroP]

Thanks MacroP, Tried Ebay - nothing going there. Tried several wreckers (websites only) and nothing is mentioned other than a couple of places 'currently dismantling' a few 150 manuals... nothing specific to the RA61F. Cheers.

I have found half a dozen on there but only a couple were 150 series. I'd be finding out if the 120 boxes are plug and plug too. The bare transmission without the transfer box maybe interchangeable but I don't know for sure.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

How bad is it crunching?
If you push it softly & slowly does it still crunch?

You could try some really good oil like castrol syntrax.
Or the nulon g70 additive.
Perhaps somebody put the wrong oil in?
Old school trick, change oil & use 500ml of auto trans oil.
Worth a try.

[404pug Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close 404pug]

+1 for the Nulon . I was using it in my 350000+ km Peugeot 504 and the box was like new. Ditto in my old 80 series. As above, new oil + nulon. Cheap fix. If it doesn't work, change gears slower or double declutch. All cheaper than $2500++

[5 RTBGS Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 5 RTBGS]

Thanks for the above advice everyone -

I have found half a dozen on there but only a couple were 150 series

hmmm I dont know what I'm doing then for Ebay searches to not show me any SH boxes (what did you write in the search bar?)... Plus I'd rather stick to a box from a 150 (if it comes to it) to rule out any hiccups that 'may' arise from using an older generation series box.

You could try some really good oil like castrol syntrax.
Or the nulon g70 additive.
Perhaps somebody put the wrong oil in?
Old school trick, change oil & use 500ml of auto trans oil

Thanks - our first process of fault finding will be an oil change as I'm not sure when or EVEN IF it has been changed in it's lifetime before our ownership so will give the mentioned oil & oil combo a go first - however I would expect that IF it's the oil then I'd have an issue with more than just third gear (perhaps?). The service records however don't show a change in GB oil but it's not to say it wasn't done...

If you push it softly & slowly does it still crunch?

It definately crunches more when the box is cold, but still does it when it's warm but not as often. I have noticed that if you really take your time in changing into third (i.e. pop out of second, let it go to neutral and gently lever it into third) it doesn't crunch as often and when it does it's not as harsh (not that we are 'racing' the gears anyway...). Also, it's not a constant crunch either, so I'm feeling that it may be damaged teeth on the 3rd syncro and it crunches when this area lines up with the main shaft (or worse the main shaft teeth are also knackered).

change gears slower or double declutch

Double clutching doesn't change it's frequency either.

I'll keep all posted on findings but please be patient as fault finding can take time.

[azzss Member Find all posts View Profile Close azzss]

Ive got a 120 series, same box though, and mine does it in 5th, (done 360,000kms), changed the oil, put nulon additive in, fixed it!. Its just starting to do it every now and again now, but if i double clutch, or slow shift, then it won't do it. Change the oil first mate.

[humungusmon Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close humungusmon]

My daughter had the same issue in her 150. Transmission mechanic changed third gear synchro ring and fixed the problem. Cost about $500 if I remember correctly. Her issues sounded the same. If you doubled the clutch and or changed slowly it would only grind a bit. All sorted now. Cheers.

[5 RTBGS Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 5 RTBGS]

Thanks Humungusmon, good to know that it's relatively inexpensive to change the third syncro if it has gone caput...
Oil changes are booked in for next week with a request fior the Nulon additive so will see how that goes first.

Cheers

[5 RTBGS Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 5 RTBGS]

Well it's still crunching after oil change.
Looks like the 3rd syncro will need replacing.

Will keep

[Tony120 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Tony120]

Mine was doing the same, ended up being caused by the thrust bearing spigot - made from alloy > develops grooves > thrust bearing doesn't slide properly so clutch not fully disengaging = busted synchro

There is a steel replacement spigot available (requires replacement of bellhousing)

pretty sure the car yard i bought mine from did a good lube up job of the spigot so wasn't noticable during test drive - first week of ownership, then offered no assistance and directed me to the warranty mob who made it as hard as possible so had to foot the bill myself - new clutch, new steel spigot, gearbox rebuild

Is your clutch heavier than you would expect?