Injector oil seals

[Foxy48 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Foxy48]

########## ,mate how would that effect the warranty? I guess me like most would be a little wary especially if something drastic happened, they would use any excuse ?? A friend of mine just had his 40K done in Perth and he said they added something to the oil, warmed the engine then drained it ,he couldn't remember what it was. Be nice to know just what it was . Do you have a separate oil pressure gauge as well as the indicator, just curious. I like a separate gauge as I like to know whats happening before it happens. ? Cheers Foxy

[Foxy48 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Foxy48]

########## ,Mate I agree with you to some extent. We bought the Prado because it had the name and it was the product we wanted .I believe the Ford Ranger has a pretty good donk in her and should be a great vehicle but for us it's a little too big .We wouldn't get it in the garage be nice all the same but. It will be very interesting where this problem will end up. Cheers Foxy

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Well your article has certainly had an effect Landuser. I just got off the phone with the bloke who I do some work for, and he says that he has had 3 enquiries since last week. It seems your article has hit the local papers as well and owners are concerned.
Guess what I have to do on another Hilux tomorrow morning 1st job when I get to work??

[Foxy48 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Foxy48]

Davros ,Mate this has been the whole point of this thread, getting people talking and maybe something good will happen, Cheers Foxy

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

Oil Pickup Screen Inspection Prado, Hilux, HiACE D4D & Tough but breakable Article

Well your article has certainly had an effect Landuser. I just got off the phone with the bloke who I do some work for, and he says that he has had 3 enquiries since last week. It seems your article has hit the local papers as well and owners are concerned.
Guess what I have to do on another Hilux tomorrow morning 1st job when I get to work??

Hi Davros,

Mate, we have had a good chat on this topic, but seriously...That article in the Herald sun was not written by me!
for those new to the thread I will refer again to the link we are talking about:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad/ute...-1226351998636

I will say though that I have seen more than one Pickup Screen blockage, and more than a few Leaking Injector Seals that would be on there way to same, so it pleased me to no end to see the problem I have seen for my own eyes, and the major customer contact program in Europe currently running on same issue, becoming more widely published.
The link to the campaign was:

http://www.toyota-tech.eu/toms_cabs/EN/1KET-015.pdf

Not All D4D's are going to leak, but the ones that do (could we guess at 20%?-I don't know but I guess thats thousands of owners?), unchecked, have a damn good chance of eventually blocking and blowing an engine, even with regualr servicing under its current guise. I don't want to see anyone having to worry about dealing with the massive expense of such a failure, so I want to just let people know to do these simple checks, and I also hope that Perhaps Toyota will help us loyal Toyota guys out like they are helping owners in other countries, I also hope that 80% of people can see a clear screen and walk away confident their engine will do more than 500,000KLM if well cared for, not 120,000-200,000KLM then fail behond repair.

The Article In the Herald sun was timely in respect to my own problems with these engines, and I could say the same for other people I know currently dealing right now with the same problems no doubt, and it certainly adds weight to my own concerns & complaints, but it is not my article, and I'm no newspaper reporter that for sure. But I am glad and hope it does get people checking for this before it becomes a big issue for themselves.

I was talking to a delivery guy in a frachise of around 80 Hiace D4D's the other day, he told me guys are having issues with these engines. Can you imagine what a disaster it would be for a delivery guy to be off the road waiting for a new engine? particualrly if it could be avoided by this simple check. Now these guys are expecting More that 200,000KLM from these engines and so they should, they are a commercial diesel engine. If they are clean, they will do the miles.
People just need help from the service agents to keep their engines clean, and Toyota need to help their service agents in achieving this goal.

By being aware and dealing with these issues, particularly when it is a simple check added to a standard service regeme, just ends up making the product better, last longer, increase customer satisfaction and help maintain the reputation of what should be a quality product experience for all customers.

Davros, for every dirty screen you find, even if it is only 20% of all the ones you check, you could have saved a customer the cost of a new motor down the road. I am sure I don't have to tell you that this is a great achievement and why many owners entrust their vehicles to maintenance professionals and will pay a premium for this service.

Good luck and hoping you don't find too many blocked clogged screens.

Landuser

[Gavx Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gavx]

So, if you don't trust your local mechanic and you don't have a camera on a stick the easiest way to check this is to drop the sub pan which will reveal the pick up screen?

If this is NOT covered in crud I am happy but if not...go to plan B.

Does this seem the best way to go?

thanks

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

Couldn't agree more Roo. The design is not good. We were discussing this very fact at work today. They are a great engine, producing really good power, with best torque available at really low revs.... But, that positioning of the injectors is just bad design. The injectors themselves are poorly designed for the application as well, with such a small bearing surface on the seal.

I pulled a sump off a 1KD today, and guess what! Crud covering 80% of the screen. The customer was extremely happy parting with the cost of 2hrs work, and avoiding a total engine failure at less than 100,000kms. Injectors being pulled in the morning as a result of the find today.

Piccies of the screen and sump below. Notice that although the screen was bad, the sump was as clean as a whistle. This engine has had 5000km oil and filter changes for all of its life.

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

HI Davros,
Thanks for the photos. A few questions, how many KM's did it have? (I know it was under 100K but how far?)
The carbon (soot) mixed with oil that sits on the strainer, how easy was it to clean? Any tips?
Being that the injectors in your case are now due for removal, are you replacing the lines as well which as far as I can tell is recommended? My real question whether people think the injector removal/seal replacement can be done by those with a good understanding of the tools but lacks the experience of having done this job before?

And lastly, as the buildup is based on carbon and oil, would those fitting a catch can also reduce the rate of which the strainer is being blocked?

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

Couldn't agree more Roo. The design is not good. We were discussing this very fact at work today. They are a great engine, producing really good power, with best torque available at really low revs.... But, that positioning of the injectors is just bad design. The injectors themselves are poorly designed for the application as well, with such a small bearing surface on the seal.

I pulled a sump off a 1KD today, and guess what! Crud covering 80% of the screen. The customer was extremely happy parting with the cost of 2hrs work, and avoiding a total engine failure at less than 100,000kms. Injectors being pulled in the morning as a result of the find today.

Piccies of the screen and sump below. Notice that although the screen was bad, the sump was as clean as a whistle. This engine has had 5000km oil and filter changes for all of its life.

Hi Davros & Roo,

Guys I agree with you on this great little engine! But why the Injectors were arranged in the design as they are is perplexing to say the least.

Davros, I am sorry to see another screen like this. I feel Proper backup on trouble shooting and what to look for in the current design is well overdue.

I have made a post re Toyota feedback on this and I would value your comment. It looks to me to be passing the can! & the buck(s)

At least you got it before it went Terminal!!!!

Landuser

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

HI Davros,
Thanks for the photos. A few questions, how many KM's did it have? (I know it was under 100K but how far?)
The carbon (soot) mixed with oil that sits on the strainer, how easy was it to clean? Any tips?
Being that the injectors in your case are now due for removal, are you replacing the lines as well which as far as I can tell is recommended? My real question whether people think the injector removal/seal replacement can be done by those with a good understanding of the tools but lacks the experience of having done this job before?

And lastly, as the buildup is based on carbon and oil, would those fitting a catch can also reduce the rate of which the strainer is being blocked?

95000kms.
Strainer was easy to clean with a bit of brake cleaner and a stiff brush followed with a degrease, wash and blow dry.
Injector seals will be replaced tomorrow morning. Injectors will omnly be replaced if required. The pipes on the common rail side do not need replacing if the person doing the work is careful.
I would recommend getting a mechanic to do the job.
And to answer your last question... A catch can will do nothing to minimise the problem. Catch cans are installed to trap bow by gases. This problem is casued by a leaking seal letting engine oil combine with the combustion cycle which causes it to burn inside the injector bore, which produces the carbon crud.

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

95000kms.
Strainer was easy to clean with a bit of brake cleaner and a stiff brush followed with a degrease, wash and blow dry.
Injector seals will be replaced tomorrow morning. Injectors will omnly be replaced if required. The pipes on the common rail side do not need replacing if the person doing the work is careful.
I would recommend getting a mechanic to do the job.
And to answer your last question... A catch can will do nothing to minimise the problem. Catch cans are installed to trap bow by gases. This problem is casued by a leaking seal letting engine oil combine with the combustion cycle which causes it to burn inside the injector bore, which produces the carbon crud.

what year model vehicle is this out of?

[Kev7762 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kev7762]

The old man rang me on Sunday and said that this issue had been reported in the Sunday paper here in Perth, so will be taking this with me when I go and pay a visit to the local service manager, to continue the discussions about mudflaps and tailshaft.
Pretty sure I can guess what is going to be said though, looks like I might be pulling the sump sometime in the near future, pretty sure the gasket will be cheaper than a camera, but will have to have a look at those too, pretty sure dick smith or one of the local auto stores will have something cheap.
Starting to wonder if keeping the car when the lease runs out may not be an option.

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

95,000 KLM in Warranty period Screen Clogging

95000kms.
Strainer was easy to clean with a bit of brake cleaner and a stiff brush followed with a degrease, wash and blow dry.
Injector seals will be replaced tomorrow morning. Injectors will omnly be replaced if required. The pipes on the common rail side do not need replacing if the person doing the work is careful.
I would recommend getting a mechanic to do the job.
And to answer your last question... A catch can will do nothing to minimise the problem. Catch cans are installed to trap bow by gases. This problem is casued by a leaking seal letting engine oil combine with the combustion cycle which causes it to burn inside the injector bore, which produces the carbon crud.

Hi Davros,

Mate great you caught this one. Would love to know if the old Injector seals are Plated Silver colour, or plain Copper.
Also, if you were able to find signs of a leak, with buildup in the Injector port or not, maybe signs of seal failure at seal face.

If the Injectors exhibit typical leak deposit buildup, you can guess where this crud came from.

Its hard to tell from your pics, but the screen buildup I have seen is composed of hard "stones" of varying sizes amongst a sludgy oil compostion, but the hard stones are characterisitc from the Injector buildup source.

This looks very similar but I was wondering in the wash up if the hard gravel stuff was present? say 2-5mm sections

I would steer your customer to Toyota Customer experience if you feel appropriate, I think you might start to get a proper hearing on this, I think we are.

Regards

Landuser

[Davros Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davros]

I won't be the one doing the injectors, but I will have a looky peeky at the old seals when they are pulled.

The crud buildup was rock hard gravel as you describe. It wasn't going anywhere without mechanical removal. It is just hard to see in the pics, with the film of oil over the crud buildup. Yes, we are fully expecting 1 or more seals to be leaking, based on the crud buildup on the pickup screen.

Checking the pickup has turned out to be a very handy diognostic stratagy IMO. It only takes a couple of minutes and could save many many thousands in repairs.

If owners of the D4D are concerned, I would suggest they request a visual inspection of the screen at each 10,000km service.

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

I won't be the one doing the injectors, but I will have a looky peeky at the old seals when they are pulled.

The crud buildup was rock hard gravel as you describe. It wasn't going anywhere without mechanical removal. It is just hard to see in the pics, with the film of oil over the crud buildup. Yes, we are fully expecting 1 or more seals to be leaking, based on the crud buildup on the pickup screen.

Checking the pickup has turned out to be a very handy diognostic stratagy IMO. It only takes a couple of minutes and could save many many thousands in repairs.

If owners of the D4D are concerned, I would suggest they request a visual inspection of the screen at each 10,000km service.

G'day Davros,

I'll stay tunned for the injector looky peeky,

I will just say though that I am so glad this issue is back in the headlines, particularly when most of our vehicles are hitting critical klm's now. This is all thanks to Roo, Davros, and others who have built up a substantive & extensive history of the issue with the
D4D, injector leaks & possible related issues, over the History of the D4D engine in the field.

If it was not for this great effort of a number of indivduals documrnting this issue, & such a good forum to discuss our vehicles, I would never have began to understand my problems and put two & two together.

I would also like to than those less technical who still took the time to post about your symptoms that now clearly are linked to this Injector leak problem, unfortunately there are many of you out there, but hopefully help will not be too far away now.

I am know able to continue to approach Toyota on this with a renewed vigour and the more we talk about it now, the more pics I can show them, I think we will end up with a real proper measure of assistance. as they have done in other countries.

definately stay tuned & thanks again guys

Landuser