Chip it???

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

Ok, what's going on? two compliments from different people in one day. You b$stards MUST be up to something........

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

"Factory" = Who cares its only rented!.. Nothing to retrieve there apart from rent in arrears!

"Workers" = Nothing lost there they are covered by the dole!

"Equipment" = Nothing lost there if hired!

"Warranty" = Totally screwed & good luck there guys!

As you know its not un-common to come back under a new name with clean slate within a month or two!

"ALSO!" Not un-common to put assets under wife's or kids names but what about warrenties? (If up-& running under a new identity).

EG: (Hypothetical example) I lend you 2 grand and you claim bankrupt!...... That sux!...

Now i hear you are back on your feet!.... Do i get my 2 grand back?

Eeer... No sorry buddy that went with my claim to bankruptcy!... Suck it up mate!!

Click link below!

Bankruptcy isn't a dirty word

[MidLifeCrisis Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close MidLifeCrisis]

"Factory" = Who cares its only rented!.. Nothing to retrieve there apart from rent in arrears!

"Workers" = Nothing lost there they are covered by the dole!

"Equipment" = Nothing lost there if hired!

"Warranty" = Totally screwed & good luck there guys!

As you know its not un-common to come back under a new name with clean slate within a month or two!

"ALSO!" Not un-common to put assets under wife's or kids names but what about warrenties? (If up-& running under a new identity).

EG: (Hypothetical example) I lend you 2 grand and you claim bankrupt!...... That sux!...

Now i hear you are back on your feet!.... Do i get my 2 grand back?

Eeer... No sorry buddy that went with my claim to bankruptcy!... Suck it up mate!!

Click link below!

Bankruptcy isn't a dirty word

SWR, the above is true, at least in part. Without rewriting a 200 page analysis, the fact is that in Australia, it is acceptable to run a business through company, attempt to protect assets through trusts and a myriad of other setups.

MOST get it wrong, most also get off because there is a cost to retrieve assets through our failed court system (as stated by the chief justice of the High Court of Australia and supported by many senior judges and Barristers and academics).

However, I note:
Factory: It is virtually impossible to enter into a lease in Australia without providing a personal guarantee, so the corporate veil is immediately ripped to shreds exposing the private bits in the form of family home, cars etc. This applies equally with astute providers to the business.

Workers: The Government runs a scheme called FEG to step into their shows so they get paid most entitlements, but NOT unpaid super. Bear in mind, they are a creditor just like the supplier, but with less control and influence. It is much harder for an employee to mitigate losses through stopping supply or suing.

Equipment: Lets hope the asset holding entity has properly registered their security interest. Laws in place for a few years now mean where they have failed to register their interest, the assets vest in the grantor (liquidated company or individual) for the benefit of all creditors. If the assets are hired, then personal guarantees will apply again.

Warranty: Absolutely correct! That's was what my original post said, just in a softer manner.

Restarting: Again correct, given the options of the person becoming a further burden on society I for one want the bugger back working! If I was a supplier however, it would be strictly cash sales only for ever. If someone wants to give credit, then good on them, business is about risk and reward. Those that don't understand this should not be in business.

Assets in a wifes name. True! but if you give someone credit without checking this, then you need to re-read the previous point. AND you can mitigate your risk by registering your interest in the items provided.

Where a business restarts soon after liquidation, it's referred to as a phoenix and this really upsets people. This happens frequently. However it is NOT illegal. What is illegal is where they dont pay fair value for the assets and this will be undone by a liquidator. I have a real current example of a gentleman starting up again as a builder and in fact completing several contracts. A number of creditors were furious when they heard this. The fact is he did it with our blessing as it enabling the monies owed under partly completed contracts to be collected rather than lost with huge counterclaims for breach of contract. You see, this very act when done properly, created a benefit that will pass on to creditors. The other upside is he doesn't join the dole queue so your and my taxes get used for better things like Treasurer lunches. i might add, his approach will also significantly reduce fees and legal costs on the job as well. A good outcome really, although initially the guy was going to be the guest of a lynching party. (In the middle ages, bankrupts were either killed, or jailed for life. In toaday's Dubai, they lock you up until you pay in full, an interesting concept as you cant earn money in a Dubai jail)

Bankruptcy is not a dirty word. Bankruptcy is designed to give an individual a fresh start. It has little negative impact in modern society. It does however try to create fairness in the distribution of assets and punish acts of deceit etc. For instance, a debt incurred through fraud is NOT extinguished by bankruptcy, it survives bankruptcy and remains due and payable. In fact we do not accept a debt through fraud as a provable debt, it has a far better footing against the individual.

Of course all of this applies to corporates as well and this is NOT ADVICE. Anyone affected by insolvency should seek professional advice particular to their circumstances.

I do appreciate your comments and understand more than most how the system "sucks" But again, we can only be a victim if we accept the circumstances. EG, secure your debt, whether by retention of title, checking as best as possible the reputation of the service provider, etc etc and you will minimise the chances, but unfortunately never eliminate them.

Finally, this is NOT ADVICE, yep said it again, if anyone needs real considered advice on this issue then I am happy to point you in the right direction via PM. This is a complex area of law with specialist lawyers that know what they are talking about and practitioners like myself. MOST everyday lawyers seek advice from them and us. I get 1-2 calls a week from lawyers wanting to know what their client can do on the issue of insolvency.

Given our PP membership numbers, there are a few hundred of you that have either done a deal with your creditors or had a business fail or certainly been affected by the same.

[r4ndll Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close r4ndll]

MLC. Mollifying Lynching Creditors?

Seriously. Nice post. I have no idea about this stuff. It's opened my eyes a little

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

@ MLC

That's what makes our forum (PP) "niche" and that much more special over the other forums!....

Attention to detail & dedicated members that look out for others with as much factual and accurate information as possible from which lessons and educated opinions are learned from without the over-the-counter bias for which is the main reason people go to forums for in the first place!

Obviously sprookers/ Smear campaigners will try to smoke screen facts in order to protect there products etc!.. All forums have them!

Hence factual and accurate knowledge from all is always a must as well as healthy debates of course!

Cheers

+1

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

@ MLC

That's what makes our forum (PP) "niche" and that much more special over the other forums!....

Attention to detail & dedicated members that look out for others with as much factual and accurate information as possible from which lessons and educated opinions are learned from without the over-the-counter bias for which is the main reason people go to forums for in the first place!

Obviously sprookers/ Smear campaigners will try to smoke screen facts in order to protect there products etc!.. All forums have them!

Hence factual and accurate knowledge from all is always a must as well as healthy debates of course!

Cheers

+1

Now this post makes sense, you were hiding having a dig at somebody else, don't let the door hit you on the way out...

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Now this post makes sense, you were hiding having a dig at somebody else, don't let the door hit you on the way out...

Wrong!... Door wont hit me on the way but he who laughs last laughs the longest!

You just haven't worked it out yet? ... Time will though!... Maybe?

I will send second request to have have my name removed tomorrow

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

You sure your name isn't Jasen?

[MelbournePark Member Find all posts View Profile Close MelbournePark]

A friend of my 22 year old son has now collected her degree from Melbourne Uni; she is a very talented writer. She is now employed to go onto sites such as this, and post amusing comments which bolster her employer's products.

I don't know who she works for, but I think that people who work for a company would be more reliable than secret employees who IMO use very devious means to market their products. While the Tune-It fellow was emotional and aggressive, at least we all knew where he was coming from! IMO at least!!