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Wheel alignment after lift ??

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  • #1

    Wheel alignment after lift ??

    After having my front lovels and bilsteins installed they did an alignment but both front wheels seem to be at a noticeable angle leaning in towards the bottom of the tyre ?? (the top of the tyre/rim stick out further than the bottom of the tyre/rim) is this normal on a lifted 150 ?
    2010 Kakadu with all the usual stuff.... Build up thread below
    [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?21930-Daz-s-2010-Kakadu-is-getting-some-lovin&highlight=daz%27s+kakadu[/url]
    Tags: None
  • #2
    It sounds like it has positive camber which is bad for handling however you look at it. I have the same thing since my lift kit was installed. Its almost like the camber has been adjusted to accommodate more lift than the car actually has. I'd wait a few weeks for the suspension to settle and then get another wheel alignment (maybe get some one else to do it.)
    [B]Declan[/B]: [SIZE=1]1997 GXL 4.5 Auto 80 series on [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], ARB bullbar, 2" OME lift, 32" MTZ, GME UHF, rear ARB locker, Kaymar spare wheel carrier[/SIZE]
    [B]PLANNED[/B]: [SIZE=1]3 or 4" suspension lift, 2" body lift (maybe), winch, 35" MTZ + roadies, front locker, sliders, cylinder head rebuilt for [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], Garret [COLOR="#4499ff"][B]Turbocharger[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

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    • #3
      the camber will increase with a suspension lift due to the change in geometry of the upper/lower arms: you're pushing the arms down, so the top of the wheel goes out.

      alignment needs to be adjusted for this.

      i wouldn't think it was normal for any lifted vehicle. ask them to correct the alignment.
      2011 150series GXL

      Comment

      • #4
        To expand on wooley's post:

        When the vehicle is lifted the wheels will have negative camber. To counter this, the lower control arms are adjusted inward. But if the camber is brought back close to zero and the vehicle settles lower afterwards, the wheels will have positive camber. I have added an additional ~65KG to the front of my car since the suspension lift so it has drooped about 20 mm and has quite noticeable positive camber.
        [B]Declan[/B]: [SIZE=1]1997 GXL 4.5 Auto 80 series on [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], ARB bullbar, 2" OME lift, 32" MTZ, GME UHF, rear ARB locker, Kaymar spare wheel carrier[/SIZE]
        [B]PLANNED[/B]: [SIZE=1]3 or 4" suspension lift, 2" body lift (maybe), winch, 35" MTZ + roadies, front locker, sliders, cylinder head rebuilt for [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], Garret [COLOR="#4499ff"][B]Turbocharger[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by williade View Post
          To expand on wooley's post:

          When the vehicle is lifted the wheels will have negative camber. To counter this, the lower control arms are adjusted inward. But if the camber is brought back close to zero and the vehicle settles lower afterwards, the wheels will have positive camber. I have added an additional ~65KG to the front of my car since the suspension lift so it has drooped about 20 mm and has quite noticeable positive camber.
          when the vehicle is lifted it will have positive camber.

          negative camber is when the top of the wheel is further in than the bottom.

          as the suspension settles you will have increasing negative camber.
          2011 150series GXL

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by wooley View Post
            when the vehicle is lifted it will have positive camber.

            negative camber is when the top of the wheel is further in than the bottom.

            as the suspension settles you will have increasing negative camber.
            Quite the opposite. When it is lifted the top of the wheel will be further in then the bottom, negative camber. This is because the upper control arm is shorter than the lower control arm. A simple way to demonstrate this is to use a trolly jack to lift the front end. You will see the top of the wheel move inward.
            [B]Declan[/B]: [SIZE=1]1997 GXL 4.5 Auto 80 series on [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], ARB bullbar, 2" OME lift, 32" MTZ, GME UHF, rear ARB locker, Kaymar spare wheel carrier[/SIZE]
            [B]PLANNED[/B]: [SIZE=1]3 or 4" suspension lift, 2" body lift (maybe), winch, 35" MTZ + roadies, front locker, sliders, cylinder head rebuilt for [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], Garret [COLOR="#4499ff"][B]Turbocharger[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by KAKADAZ View Post
              After having my front lovels and bilsteins installed they did an alignment but both front wheels seem to be at a noticeable angle leaning in towards the bottom of the tyre ?? (the top of the tyre/rim stick out further than the bottom of the tyre/rim) is this normal on a lifted 150 ?
              I had the same problem after my lift, got a wheel alignment done and all they did was adjust the "toe".
              Took it back and told them that the camber was way out, and all they did was adjust the left wheel camber and forgot the right. I ended up adjusting the
              right wheel myself.
              The end result was approx zero degree for the camber, and total toe in 1-2mm.

              The tyre wear is very even now.
              Prado 120 GXL v6 Petrol 2003, Lovell 50mm raised springs -HD Front -Medium Rear, Bilstein Shocks, 600w inverter, Rhino roof rack and tray.

              Comment

              • #8
                The car also seems very twitchy on the steering like even the slightest touch on the wheel has and effect. I thought lifting the car would give it positive camber but the alignment should have ironed it out. I may go elsewhere and get it re done.
                2010 Kakadu with all the usual stuff.... Build up thread below
                [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?21930-Daz-s-2010-Kakadu-is-getting-some-lovin&highlight=daz%27s+kakadu[/url]

                Comment

                • #9
                  Your steering may be twitchy if the caster angle hasn't been adjusted. Because of the angle that the upper control arm is mounted at, lifting the prado will decrease the caster angle and the prado could become susceptible to bump steer.
                  [B]Declan[/B]: [SIZE=1]1997 GXL 4.5 Auto 80 series on [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], ARB bullbar, 2" OME lift, 32" MTZ, GME UHF, rear ARB locker, Kaymar spare wheel carrier[/SIZE]
                  [B]PLANNED[/B]: [SIZE=1]3 or 4" suspension lift, 2" body lift (maybe), winch, 35" MTZ + roadies, front locker, sliders, cylinder head rebuilt for [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], Garret [COLOR="#4499ff"][B]Turbocharger[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by williade View Post
                    Quite the opposite. When it is lifted the top of the wheel will be further in then the bottom, negative camber. This is because the upper control arm is shorter than the lower control arm. A simple way to demonstrate this is to use a trolly jack to lift the front end. You will see the top of the wheel move inward.
                    ahh, well there you go. learn something new every day. apologies.

                    are the upper arms that much shorter than the lower?
                    2011 150series GXL

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wooley View Post
                      ahh, well there you go. learn something new every day. apologies.

                      are the upper arms that much shorter than the lower?
                      I haven't measured it but the lca would have to be close to double the length of the uca (measuring from the pivot bolts to the ball joints).
                      [B]Declan[/B]: [SIZE=1]1997 GXL 4.5 Auto 80 series on [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], ARB bullbar, 2" OME lift, 32" MTZ, GME UHF, rear ARB locker, Kaymar spare wheel carrier[/SIZE]
                      [B]PLANNED[/B]: [SIZE=1]3 or 4" suspension lift, 2" body lift (maybe), winch, 35" MTZ + roadies, front locker, sliders, cylinder head rebuilt for [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], Garret [COLOR="#4499ff"][B]Turbocharger[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by williade View Post
                        Quite the opposite. When it is lifted the top of the wheel will be further in then the bottom, negative camber. This is because the upper control arm is shorter than the lower control arm. A simple way to demonstrate this is to use a trolly jack to lift the front end. You will see the top of the wheel move inward.
                        probably explains why since the lift my tyres just touched the UCA when four wheel driving but didn't used to pre lift..
                        2010 Kakadu with all the usual stuff.... Build up thread below
                        [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?21930-Daz-s-2010-Kakadu-is-getting-some-lovin&highlight=daz%27s+kakadu[/url]

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KAKADAZ View Post
                          probably explains why since the lift my tyres just touched the UCA when four wheel driving but didn't used to pre lift..
                          The reason the tyres foul on the UCA after the lift is because the front bolt on the uca is higher that the rear bolt, so lifting the Prado has the effect of moving the outer edge of the uca forward.

                          It's funny how the suspension geometry of an IFS vehicle is thrown into chaos with a simple 2" spring lift.
                          [B]Declan[/B]: [SIZE=1]1997 GXL 4.5 Auto 80 series on [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], ARB bullbar, 2" OME lift, 32" MTZ, GME UHF, rear ARB locker, Kaymar spare wheel carrier[/SIZE]
                          [B]PLANNED[/B]: [SIZE=1]3 or 4" suspension lift, 2" body lift (maybe), winch, 35" MTZ + roadies, front locker, sliders, cylinder head rebuilt for [B][COLOR="#FF0000"]LPG[/COLOR][/B], Garret [COLOR="#4499ff"][B]Turbocharger[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by williade View Post
                            The reason the tyres foul on the UCA after the lift is because the front bolt on the uca is higher that the rear bolt, so lifting the Prado has the effect of moving the outer edge of the uca forward.

                            It's funny how the suspension geometry of an IFS vehicle is thrown into chaos with a simple 2" spring lift.
                            Very true.....its not to much to worry me as its only touched once during a big bottom out but I certainly will keep an eye on it I don't like the idea of tyres touching anywhere..My front was lifted about 40mm but yeah enough to change geometry's I guess.
                            2010 Kakadu with all the usual stuff.... Build up thread below
                            [url]http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?21930-Daz-s-2010-Kakadu-is-getting-some-lovin&highlight=daz%27s+kakadu[/url]

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd just hijack this thread with my question.

                              After lifting a vehicle when should the wheel alignment be done, right away or after a couple of hundred kays until everything has settled? I'm reading and hearing so much conflicting information I don't know what to believe.

                              Comment

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