ZR SWB suspension question

[prokiwi Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close prokiwi]

Hi All ,
I have the 3 door Zr and notice it dives under hard braking and , in my opinion if I was going fast and had to do this it would be highly unstable .
I would imagine it could be fixed with a suspension upgrade , trouble is , every suspension dealer is telling me something different .

Apparently i need to replace all four shocks and springs to fix the problem .
Two dealers said front springs only , and one dealer said front springs and shocks should be replaced.
Does anyone have any experience with a swb and this issue ??
I dont want to lift the vehicle at all , simply want it to stop diving in front . My thoughts are to change the front shockies first and that should fix it ?? following the whole compression / rebound theory ??
Any brand not to go with or one that stands out.. ??
I would like to keep the soft ride i have now , but am happy if it isa little firmer and more controllable. I have airbags for the odd time i tow a heavy trailer .,
Thanks in advance.
Aaron

[KAKADAZ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close KAKADAZ]

Does the ZR have the adjustable ride settings? I would have thought stiffer springs would have more on a cure than shocks?

[MAR Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close MAR]

The best results u will get after u chenge whole kit ( springs + shocks). Is a matter of damping and returning ratio what may be very different for combination of shocks and springs. That is that " magic" knowlage why some cars win Dakar and some loose.
Best way is to get medium springs and adjustable shocks, then u can play.
Race solution is FOX and kings shocks, then u have coil over and u can adjust both, but is VERY expensive.

[Guest Close Guest]

There are so many variables with suspension that you can't tell if a certain suspension mod will satisfy what you want.
Braking transfers weight, so you'll need a combination of heavier springs and shocks with higher damping ratio. It is pretty much a given that the well known brands for shocks have higher damping ratios. Their design determines their performance when worked hard and therefore how easily it will 'fade'.

I guess a good starting point is to find a spring manufacturer that does a standard height spring but is a little stiffer. I know that Kings springs do one for the 120. Not sure about the 150 SWB. You can then swap out the struts for Bilsteins and try that combo out.

Of course, you can just try swapping the springs first, but it will be the same amount of work again to swap out the struts later on. So it depends whether you want to do the work twice. It is pretty much a given that a change in the strut will improve the diving as it works to slow down the stroke of the suspension.

If you can DIY, then it is definitely cheaper and you can start with the springs first.

[KAKADAZ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close KAKADAZ]

I put Bilsteins and lovells on the front of mine. The ride is very marginally harder on road (always was firm with the KDSS) off road is much much nicer but the front still dips under hardish braking it is just weight transfer. The only way I can see you minimizing it is heavy duty springs but the trade off will be a harsh ride.

[prokiwi Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close prokiwi]

Thanks guys ,

That makes things a bit more clearer.
I took the vehicleto Pedders this morningfor their 28 point suspension check , everything is exactly as it should be , brakes work perfectly , shocks do their job, weight distribution is perfect .
They did however say it was the most dangerous late model vehicle they had ever driven , and I should be taking it back to Toyota as they believe it is a safety issue trying to brake hard above 40kmh.

They have recommended we try a slightly harder front spring as they believe it will help somewhat , however they do think it will not go away all together as the short wheel base makes weight transfer more noticable.

I will try the new springs and see how we go ....thanks again for all the valuable info .....

P>S Kings Springs do not have anything for the ZR specificially as yet and are looking for a test vehicle to try and sort something out for this model. Unfortunately I cannot spare mine currently .

[Guest Close Guest]

I've always heard people with bad experiences with Pedders. There is a common theme in that they will say that your car is very dangerous if we don't do this and this, etc. So unwitting people get scared and pay them big bucks for unnecessary work.

Saying that it is the most dangerous vehicle is a bit over the top.

Do you know what springs they are putting in? How much are they charging you for this work?

[prokiwi Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close prokiwi]

Yes I have heard a lot of people complain about Pedders , unfortunately they were the only people who have a machine for testing the shocks etc that I could find .

The front springs are their own brand and are $400 fitted which i didnt think was too bad .
They have been the only ones that have not said to do a full set of shocks and springs as others have so far. (In fact they did not want to comment until they had tested the vehicle.

To be fair to Pedders , I have driven a lot of vehicles in my time , including more new vehicles than most and I have to say , this thing is an amazing vehicle , both spec and quality , but this braking issue is down right dangerous as I have had it do it to me a couple fo times doing between 40kmh and 60kmh .....

I also race quadbikes , and previously stockcars and sprint cars ...so I am fairly comfortable this issue is far from normal , acceptable , or safe.

I agree that every shop wants to sell you something , I did look around at others spring prices installed and have yet to see me being ripped off etc ..........

I even went out with one of the tecs from pedders on his first drive to gauge his reaction ...I made him drive at 50kmh and then hit the brakes reasonably hard (not so hard as to grab the abs though)....

Anyway , its a start .....

[prokiwi Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close prokiwi]

Update on my suspension woes.
Well happy to report pedders put in a heavier front spring and the results were exactly as I was hoping for. The vehicle is more direct in its steering, cornering is easier as the vehicle points and goes now , instead of wandering around the corners previously. The front feels firmer but not hard, the braking under normal or firm brakes is perfect with no diving. Under hard or quick heavy braking the vehicle still dives , but at a much slower pace and far more controllable . I am led to believe this is more a result of the swb and weight transfer.

All up , for the cost of a set of front springs the vehicle is 100% more accurate in its handling and I would recommend this mod to anyone with a SWB Prado . It has still retained its plush ride which is the important thing for me. A trip through the Dandenong Ranges yesterday was an exciting and enjoyable drive.

Thanks to everyone for your guidance , and a special plug for Pedders who were the ultimate professionals and did exactly what they said they would do , at the said price.

Cheers