How big a difference will I notice with new suspension

[REN470 Member Find all posts View Profile Close REN470]

Hi Everyone,

I've got a question about a suspension upgrade. I have a 150 FL Diesel with an ARB bullbar, winch, D/L and soon a dual battery setup with the second battery under the bonnet. When I put the bar and winch on the suspension dropped 20mm.
I'm now looking at doing the suspension mainly due to the diving under brakes and change of direction.

My question is what sort of difference will I get in the drivability? I know what brand I'll get and I know it will lift it back to the pre bullbar ride height but what I really want to know is will the drive improve much if at all? The money isn't a big concern but if it does nothing other than lift it back to where it was ill be disappointed.

Thanks in advance

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

There is a lot to be taken into account mate. Mostly due to the fact that we have no clue which suspension components you are changing, which brand, which model... Are you changing any other suspension components?

For instance, I recently swapped out my suspension and yes there was a definite lift but spending $45 on swaybar mount bushes gave me the biggest change in driveability.

Nothing can change the fact you've just added several hundred kilos to the front of the car.. Thus moving the centre of gravity forwards. Putting a heavier load over the front and a lighter load over the rear. Toyota has spent millions of dollars and many many months fine tuning this and then with the bat of an eyelid and an opening of your wallet. You go and screw it all up! Am I saying you shouldn't have put all that weight? Nah not at all. Sounds like a great setup, but its a 2 way street.

Also, define driveability? I mean I'd spend a lot of money if I could smooth out my Prado's ride to that of my wife's Mercedes... Ask my old man, the more teeth you break on the highway the better the 4x4 lol

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I would say you will get a significant improvement over the standard suspension assuming you select the correct spring rates and its a quality brand you are looking at. That's my experience, even changing with only 300km's on the clock.

Cheers Andrew

[REN470 Member Find all posts View Profile Close REN470]

Hi,

Yeah, sorry. I'll just be doing springs and shocks as it only has 7000klms odd on it. I'm going for OME as I like my local shop and they look after me. I'll be going for springs to match the load.

Ta

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

In that instance if the springs designed to return to normal ride height but with an increased load you should find your driveability will return to the day you got it. Diving issues will be gone.

Going for setup that is a lift designed for normal weight will lift the nose but not stop the diving.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

OME is what I run, I think you will be happy with the improvement.

Cheers Andrew

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey REN470,

With your secondary battery under the bonnet, an ARB bar and a winch, you will be adding 120-140kg on the front end, depending if you use steel or dyneema cable on your winch, and depending on battery capacity/dimensions.

This is a lot of weight outside the factory weights, and if you want to compensate for it, you can calculate the suspension frequencies at front and rear of the car and choose your spring rates accordingly.

Keep in mind one of the biggest culprits with front end nose diving is soft factory tyres (not sure what tyres you have). When you brake hard on the front, the very stiff front coils (typically 600lb/in or more) take some of the force, but a lot can be directed through the tyres, and soft tyres can bag out a lot under heavy braking with a heavy front end.

All terrain and mud tyres have much, much stiffer sidewalls in them, and eliminate a lot of front end diving.

All of that being so, if you upgrade your factory coils to something like Dobinsons, which are a bit stiffer than factory, you will notice your Prado will handle a lot better and in corners the Prado will sit much better. King coils are stiffer again.

This is merely the on-road changes you can expect.

Then when it comes to taking your Prado off road, you are faced with a lot more questions. You need some lift to clear obstacles and minimise under body damage. If you lift your Prado, you need to consider the changes in strut open closed lengths on the IFS, similarly shock lengths for the rear, front CV bind limits, appropriate length rear coils at full rear flex to avoid coil drop out, etc. etc., lots of factors.

Depending on what struts/shocks you choose, eg, bilsteins are relatively soft, Konis (RAIDS) can be extremely stiff, then your Prado can also feel very different under varying conditions off road. Some after market shocks wear out quickly, others last a long time.

Best of luck with your new suspension!

Mark

[REN470 Member Find all posts View Profile Close REN470]

Thanks for your help guys. Obviously it's worth the time and hassle of getting it done, so I will


Cheers

[RanJ Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close RanJ]

Well you need it done for the safety of yourself others if its diving bad enough to notice it around corners!

[lortap Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close lortap]

I was in exactly the same position as you. My prado drove like a dog after I installed a bulbar, dual batteries etc. It was horrible driving around corners, braking was dodgy and even worse off road where I would regularly bottom out the front end when going over big bumps.

I put a two inch lift in, heavy duty front springs, bilstein stocks - huge difference. Handles far better on road, despite the lift, brakes better. The ride is stiffer than when it was stock with no gear on it, so you lose some comfort, but its worth it. Off road I hardly ever bottom out and it feels stronger.

You will never get back the responsive, but buttery ride you had when the vehicle had no gear on it, but its a significant improvement.

[sunchaser Member Find all posts View Profile Close sunchaser]

OME is what I run, I think you will be happy with the improvement.

Cheers Andrew

x2

[Rob L Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rob L]

I've just changed from EFS to Outback armour. Was pretty happy with the EFS rear setup (after swapping from the hard springs to the soft springs) but disappointed with the front. The compression rate on the front was good but the rebound was way too soft. The rear had dramas with the shroud (?) coming loose after a while. They replaced them no questions asked but it happened again not long after and by this stage the front had sagged quite considerable. The Outback armour setup is leaps and bounds better in ride quality and damping rates with the front being ride height adjustable through spacers. I'm running 15mm of spacers (same setup as Bilstien i think) with Bullbar, winch etc etc and this height setting has the car dead flat front to rear. Had OME on me old 07 Patrol (piece of rubbish) and they were also very good but a fair bit stiffer.

Got to say though as a motorcyclist the shockies on cars and 4x4's are pretty primitive. On my Fireblade I've got ride height, preload plus both slow and high speed rebound/compression adjustment. I think having different spring rates and loads that are all covered by the one shockie is a bit of a substantial trade off.

[SimpleSi Member Find all posts View Profile Close SimpleSi]

Didn't want to start a new thread, so I'll ask here.
I'm also trying to justify a suspension upgrade to my 150 GXL (2010 D4D) prior to a possible trip to the rock next year. The car has done 70,00kms, how long would I expect the factory shocks/springs to last before an essential replacement? (Will get an ARB bullbar if the trip goes ahead)

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

I left the original suspension in my first 120 series and they started to leak around 70,000, mind you there was a fair bit of hard outback travel in that.

Generally I tend to think if your shocks have done 100 thou they are likely due for replacement, but shocks are probably the most neglected part of most vehicles and people run them way longer than that if on the blacktop most of the time.

Cheers Andrew

[shodown Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shodown]

My fronts are starting to weep now at 115k. Its had a front ARB bar on its entire life.