How to best fix tubby ride?

[foxpro Member Find all posts View Profile Close foxpro]

After adding some gear to a Prado GX MY14 it rides like a tub and steers like a boat... Pressing the brake on the highway firstly produces a long travel of the nose downwards and then after hope is almost gone some deceleration eventually. It feels rather unsafe and in need of fixing.

All items that have gone in since stock are:
- Tow bar (50kg)
- Steel Side Steps (40kg)
- Roof tray and mounting (25kg)
- Dual battery system (25kg)
- False floor (5kg)
- Rear drawers and fridge slide (80kg)
- 40l fridge (15kg)
- Camping table (8kg)
All up 248kg so far. A 65kg roof tent and a plastic bull bar will be added at a later stage.

Now, how to best improve the situation?

- Suspension
If a suspension upgrade goes in a <= 2" inch lift is desired as well. So far the Ironman kit appears to be a bit cheaper than ARB or TJM. Any meaningful differences between them?

- Tyres
Some harder walled LT tyres should help. Choice is between BFG 265/70/17 LT or Dueller 275/65/17 (not sure if LT).

Do either upgrade or both? What would be the best path?
Also I want to stay legal in NSW, so only 15mm tyre size upgarde and 50mm overall lift are allowed.

[Guest Close Guest]

Soubds like your suspension is already shot..
I'd be concentrating there first.

[foxpro Member Find all posts View Profile Close foxpro]

Hmm, yes. This is a new vehicle with 1500km on the clock, no off-roading yet, and only me and above gear as load. Complimentary check-up was ok, so I guess it is what it is and I have to deal with it. I wonder how this car would handle if it really had 5 people plus camping gear in it. Not too impressed at the moment. I'll be talking to some suspension guys on Monday.

[MDSimpson Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDSimpson]

Yeah, I don't think the standard suspension would be up the that task.
Upgrade is the way to go.

And if the weight in the back changes greatly, then consider airbags too.
This will allow you have softer springs, and retain good loaded carry too.

[Heath74 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Heath74]

That's not actually a huge load that you've put on it. 185kg. Nearly all of it sits inside the wheel base or above the suspension. I believe the standard suspension should manage that.
Upgrading the suspension with lift, is only going to feel different if you put in HD springs. And without a steel bar and winch on the front nobody should recommend HD springs in the front. You might consider them in the rear, but I wouldnt, I'd suggest airbags in the rear, much more flexible and adjustable.
Further if you don't like the ride now, 2" lift is only going to be less stable.

As a matter of interest, what are you comparing the ride too? IMO the prado is one of the most car like rides you can get in a 4wd with any capability.

[reggie426 Member Find all posts View Profile Close reggie426]

Suspension is the answer, these prado's are notorious for diving under brakes and excessive body roll. Even the dealer suggested to me when I test drove it to take it straight up the road and replace the springs and shocks. The tyres don't help as they're soft walled road tyres but wear them out a bit first before spending the $ on new ones.

Mines going in for Dobinsons and Bilsteins in 2 weeks, gives a 40-50mm lift and stiffens up so it doesn't dive or roll. Go speak to a suspension or 4wd shop and they'll know exactly what you're suffering from.

[foxpro Member Find all posts View Profile Close foxpro]

Airbags? I'm a true newbie and thought I had more time to learn the 4wd lingo but I guess these are devices that go in additionally to the coils? Where do i get those?

[reggie426 Member Find all posts View Profile Close reggie426]

Same places that will sell you any decent suspension components. Best bet is to visit a TJM or ARB shop and a dedicated suspension shop and ask questions, get as much info as you can before plonking down any cash

[Symo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Symo]

Airbags between rear coils. I run them on all my cool spring 4wd as the standard springs can't even cope with a full tank of fuel let alone 500kg payload.

[foxpro Member Find all posts View Profile Close foxpro]

That's not actually a huge load that you've put on it. 185kg.

I forgot some items before so I edited the first post. It is now at 248kg. Without roof tent and plastic bull bar.

Nearly all of it sits inside the wheel base or above the suspension. I believe the standard suspension should manage that. Upgrading the suspension with lift, is only going to feel different if you put in HD springs. And without a steel bar and winch on the front nobody should recommend HD springs in the front. You might consider them in the rear, but I wouldnt, I'd suggest airbags in the rear, much more flexible and adjustable.
Further if you don't like the ride now, 2" lift is only going to be less stable.

Good point with the 2" lift. My heart is not set on it. Up to now it wasn't even considered. I just thought if the the suspension has to be touched anyway I could at least benefit from a 'free' lift. Everyone around here seems to recommends it. Also the guy I got the the ORB drawers from who was fluent in 4WD recommended a suspension lift.

As a matter of interest, what are you comparing the ride too? IMO the prado is one of the most car like rides you can get in a 4wd with any capability.

My last 4WD was a Pajero 15 years ago. Since then I only had German station wagons. So yes, it is probably my previous driving experience as well, but I still would like a stiffer setup and a more immediate control, if possible.

[foxpro Member Find all posts View Profile Close foxpro]

Mines going in for Dobinsons and Bilsteins in 2 weeks, gives a 40-50mm lift and stiffens up so it doesn't dive or roll. Go speak to a suspension or 4wd shop and they'll know exactly what you're suffering from.

Sounds good. What is the ballpark price tag on such a setup?

[reggie426 Member Find all posts View Profile Close reggie426]

$2150 for that, still undecided about gvm upgrade which is closer to $3k. You can get cheaper shock/spring combos but I wanted to go the slightly better ones

[foxpro Member Find all posts View Profile Close foxpro]

Hmm, that is some serious cash. What are the cheaper combos to consider? Are they worth exploring? I really don't want to skimp on the suspension. It is bad now and I really need a jump forward. The aim is tour around Australia in this vehicle.
Ironman any good?

[Heath74 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Heath74]

I've run combinations including dobinsons, bilstien and now tough dog suspension. To be honest, I've found them all much of a muchness. You should be able to get a kit with springs and shocks for a 2" lift for around$1200-1400. Last time I priced ironman they weren't that cheap. Air bags a further $300. Fitting you should budget on around 3-4 hours labour, plus a wheel alignment on top of that.
As far as lift goes, if you have a need for it, great, but be aware it will raise the centre of gravity of your vehicle, and therfore reduce handling, you will feel more body roll and dive. If you don't need it, and handling is important to you I'd avoid it.
Yes airbags sit inside the rear spring, and once you put about 15psi in them the really stiffen up the rear. Great when you have a load on, might be worth a try with your standard springs, it sounds like most of your weight is in the rear.

I'll still maintain that you should be fitting standard springs, with that load you will find HD springs very firm. Talk to a couple of specialists, and maybe give it a few more kms, you might get used to the feel. I'm sorry to say that it's never going to handle like a commodore, let alone a German station wagon!

[MDSimpson Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDSimpson]

I've run combinations including dobinsons, bilstien and now tough dog suspension. To be honest, I've found them all much of a muchness. You should be able to get a kit with springs and shocks for a 2" lift for around$1200-1400. Last time I priced ironman they weren't that cheap. Air bags a further $300. Fitting you should budget on around 3-4 hours labour, plus a wheel alignment on top of that.
As far as lift goes, if you have a need for it, great, but be aware it will raise the centre of gravity of your vehicle, and therfore reduce handling, you will feel more body roll and dive. If you don't need it, and handling is important to you I'd avoid it.
Yes airbags sit inside the rear spring, and once you put about 15psi in them the really stiffen up the rear. Great when you have a load on, might be worth a try with your standard springs, it sounds like most of your weight is in the rear.

I'll still maintain that you should be fitting standard springs, with that load you will find HD springs very firm. Talk to a couple of specialists, and maybe give it a few more kms, you might get used to the feel. I'm sorry to say that it's never going to handle like a commodore, let alone a German station wagon!

If you talk to the right people, they will advise you, based on your needs, don't just buy off the the shelf. there is a lot to consider. So I agree, jumping into HD springs is a bit of a risk.
My new OME kit, fitted new on my 2014 150 is great, but ARB took into consideration bullbar, future install of dual batteries, and my load in the rear, both permanent and flexible. So once I told them I'll get airbags, they lwoered the rate of the springs in the back, gives a really nice ride when empty, not towing. I've not towed with it yet, but soon...