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  • Hi all. I’ve been reading with interest re GVM upgrades, and general suspension ideas. We recently completed a 5 week trip up the middle towing an off-road Cub camper, which was great! I noted a few issues, however, and would love some advice!
    The setup:
    - 2015 150 series VX (KDSS) Prado 3.0l diesel
    - Toyota towbar
    - Cub Escape camper - about 1600kg loaded

    As pictured, we have 3 big kids in back seat, and a boot full of bags. We need the rear extra 2 seats back home, so I don’t wanna take them out.
    The camper ball weight sits within proper limits - around 150kg.
    The camper normally sits quite tall (independent springs/shocks, big wheels).

    For the trip, I fitted a Hayman Reece tongue to lift the ball height on the car. This gave much less “head down” on the trailer, but 1)not enough and 2)didn’t allow barn door on Prado to open.

    I also noted that we came close to bottoming out on a lot of tracks, and indeed lost an Anderson plug at one point. I really noticed this crossing dry creek beds, even very slowly.

    I assume the answer is a GVM upgrade with a bit of lift and stiffer springs and adjustable airbags? I am considering adding a winch and Smartbar (lighter) on front, and maybe a second battery for trips without the trailer (fridge in the back) (which will add weight). I also want to change to a different full roof rack so I can move some items up there. We also plan to add bikes to trailer front (which may add to ball weight).

    Have a look at pic. I’d like to:
    - have a flat-riding trailer with a standard flat tongue (not a lifted one)
    - no or minimal sag in the car rear/lift in the front. Note that the missus still needs to drive it around town! Thus, something easily adjusted for empty city driving vs loaded car only vs loaded car and camper in tow.
    - some lift (despite careful lines, I scraped the side rails a few times)

    I also noted a fair bit of “porpoising” and “wallow” on undulating roads.....would be great to settle this down.

    I am in Melbourne. I’d love some ideas for a relative novice!

    Cheers, Mat

    Click image for larger version  Name:	C2E11D60-FA0F-4EFE-B681-E8BEA580DC8C.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	52.4 KB ID:	758860
    mat-with-one-t
    Junior Member
    Last edited by mat-with-one-t; 19-07-2021, 03:47 PM.

    Comment


    • Everyone I've spoken with has told me that you can't do a GVM upgrade to a current model Kakadu. Yet there are suggestions in this thread that it's possible. Can anyone tell me, either in this thread or via PM, whom I might talk to about the possibility of doing an upgrade, by replacing the air bags with springs? Another 260kgs would be really useful.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by gunda View Post
        Everyone I've spoken with has told me that you can't do a GVM upgrade to a current model Kakadu. Yet there are suggestions in this thread that it's possible. Can anyone tell me, either in this thread or via PM, whom I might talk to about the possibility of doing an upgrade, by replacing the air bags with springs? Another 260kgs would be really useful.
        Found this with a quick Google as an example.....
        https://www.tjm4x4accessories.com.au...s-gvm-upgrade/
        https://www.lovellscampbellfield.com.au/gvm-gcm

        Comment


        • Originally posted by mat-with-one-t View Post
          From the first link: "(Excludes Kakadu model with Air Bag rear suspension)". Therein lies the problem. I think at the very least you'd need to remove the airbags and fit springs, and an engineers assessment for such a such a non-standard, one-off change not be a trivial exercise. Probably not cost-effective. Especially for only a 250kg increase, as has been suggested.

          (The seconk link doesn't mention the Kakadu exclusion, but I'm fairly sure that it would apply.)

          Comment


          • Gotcha. I have a kdss Vx 3.0 2015. It’s all very confusing!

            Comment


            • Yes, it's a little frustrating. The other three Prado variants can have GVM upgrades, and you'd think that it should be possible to revert the Kakadu rear suspension to the same style as those three, and thus make the Kakadu GVM upgrade eligible. There are some people here who seem to know about how it could be done, and I'd like to hear more from them.

              My understanding is that KDSS makes GVM upgrades tricky, as it can be hard to make the vehicle level afterwards. I believe that this can be fixed by bleeding and resetting the KDSS system, but it's a risk. I believe that the 300 series Cruiser has electronic KDSS rather than hydraulic, which should simplify GVM upgrades when they come available.

              Comment


              • Fulcrum now has a Lovell kit to do GVM upgrade for Kakadu and VX with KDSS!

                You will lost the airbags (Kakadu wise) and replaced with Coil, but you get 3,500kg GVM.




                https://fulcrumsuspensions.com.au/35...0+Series%5D%29
                Last edited by andylo; 23-08-2021, 12:01 PM.

                Comment


                • I have a success story on my 2016 Kakadu suspension upgrade. I will write up a summary here as a reference for other people who came across this in the future.


                  Firstly, some background information:
                  1) My purpose is build a reliable tourer that is capable to some Glass House Mountain type 4WDing occasionally.
                  2) Also to get a 10% GVM upgrade
                  3) I don't trust airbag rear as I have PHOBIA about air suspension due to my bad experience with Mercedes GLS previously
                  4) I want to retain the function of KDSS
                  5) I don't tow (not often enough anyway)
                  6) I have front steel bar and winch and I will add rear bar and other accessories
                  7) I am in QLD

                  My setup is done through Fulcrum.
                  It cost me $3k all up
                  Items included:
                  1) Adjustable upper control arms
                  2) Diff drop kit
                  3) Their standard click and fit kit for Prado 150 but with HD version of King Springs
                  4) a pair of Polyair ultimate as assist bag for rear coil springs (for that probably never going to happen occasion of towing)

                  Hiccups:
                  1) for silly reason the rear coils for 120 and 150 has the same part number! My local fulcrum pick up this error and ordered the correct one, which delay the process by 1 day.
                  2) I have installed Kaon UVP. Due to diff drop kit, they have to put extra spacers to make the UVP goes back on again.


                  Because I am in QLD, I have already found my own independent engineer to do my 10% GVM compliance (which we call LS11)

                  1,000km driven so far during this write up and the following is my experience:

                  On road:
                  60 (or lower) zone - ride a little taller, not too much of a difference
                  Highway - a very obvious difference on higher speed - car ride more supple and eat up bumps like European cars, makes long distance journey less tiring.
                  Speed bump - just eat it up very nicely (but of course don't go crazy about it)

                  Off road:
                  (Bush)

                  Driving on gravel road will notice the BIGGEST difference. It just eats up most of the smaller stuff. I wouldn't say like driving on highway but there is an OBVIOUS improvement. (anyone has driven Kennedy Development Road will appreciate this change!)
                  Eats up the smaller bumps on corrugations quite well (make you more confident, less tiring)
                  Ride a little higher and surprisingly it's has a positive effect on seeing your front over the bonnet tiny bit better
                  I find myself can feel the road condition a little better through the steering
                  Car rides taller - so on the side tilting angle it feels more scary. Something to get used to. (Also now I think of it, I should have fully deflated the rear airbags and let the coil works it's own thing)
                  I haven't get myself bigger set of tyres yet so there will be no improvement on ground clearance. I will add in this review when I got them)

                  Off road:
                  (Sand/Beach)

                  To be added in the future

                  My personal note to others (or what will I do differently if I do it again):
                  1)
                  I choose to convert my OEM airbags but you don't have to. Airbag man does have a lifted airbag suspension kit for you:
                  https://airbagman.com.au/collections...3?lfdnr=311261
                  2) If you go with my path, I will choose airbag man above polyair. Polyair is cheaper but Airbag man version has a kit which you can have in-car-on-board control system allows you to inflate/deflate your helper bag without getting off your driver seat. (but another $1.5K thu!)
                  3) I will repetitively remind my shop to check the correct parts is being stocked, as it seems 120/150 has same part number.
                  4) If you ever wonder why I don't go with more expensive kits (i.e. King/Fox shocks etc) they are upward of $6K just for parts, and MOST importantly, warranty and support across the nation (which is point #5)
                  5) I go with Fulcrum due to the fact that you have 5 years, unlimited KM warranty. I can use Zip Pay and most importantly, it has a huge network across the nation. It is still early days but so far my customer experience with them is quite positive so I have confident moving forward. (Another brand I would trust for customer service and support network would be TJM! But the 3 shops I have talked to seems have preservation on Kakadu and KDSS so I didn't choose them)
                  6) Another reason not go higher end product is a result of my extended research (of 1 year 9 months! Yes I know....) and the following video actually sums this up, really well! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D0F1lSvGi0&t=23s


                  If there is any question of discussion feel free to post here or PM me or ask anything. I will do my best to assist.
                  Last edited by andylo; 25-08-2021, 10:43 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Hi Andy and thanks for all the effort! One thing - I can’t see what kit you actually used! Was it Bilstein? I’m looking at their lift kit/10% GVM/50mm lift with rear Airbagman for camper towing on advice here.....Mat

                    Comment


                    • HI Mat, it is their standard click and fit kit.

                      So it's a set if Fulcrum shocks and a set of Kings HD springs, with 2 Poly Air helper bag in the rear end.


                      Comment


                      • Has anyone had much luck with getting this done in Perth? Been reading up on it today and thinking I will get the below but I rang ARB Welshpool and the guy was adamant they cant do it on the Kakadu. Has anyone has any luck in WA?

                        Front:
                        BP5190002R
                        BP5190004L

                        Rear:
                        BP5160025
                        Rear AirbagMan Airbags

                        Comment


                        • Have you try other ARBs in WA? (I just assume there would be a dozen ARBs in WA if not more)

                          Some shop just choose not to deal with Prado's KDSS (or KDSS at all) due to potential risk of KDSS lean and even there is a well published fix and solution they just can't be bother.

                          Comment


                          • I'd fall out of my tree if ANY ARB outlet had a Kakadu GVM upgrade option. They all sell the same products and they don't have a GVM one for the Kakadu. Some ARB outlets will do a lift - I found at least one at the Sydney Caravan show in April, but I suspect they're in the minority. If you want to do what Andylo did above you're going to have to find a 4WD shop that's prepared to work with the Lovell kit.

                            Comment


                            • I spoke with John from Zordos over east after seeing him recommended on here a few times and he gave me heaps of advice. Will stay clear of the ARB and go with a Dobinson set up. Hopefully goes in all good.

                              Edit: spoke with some other ARBs and none of them wanted to touch it because of the lean issue.

                              Comment


                              • Delete
                                Last edited by djw; 25-10-2021, 12:16 PM.

                                Comment

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