Upper Ball Joint

[JimmyC Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close JimmyC]

G'day all,
Has anyone had any experience with replacing the upper ball joint on the 150 (120's are the same I believe)?
I got quoted today 2 hours labour per side (4 hours labour total) plus a wheel alignment required at the end to do the job. From what I can gather the wheel alignment would be due to them having to remove the UCA to get into the joint.
Does this seem right for anyone else who may have already been through this?

Cheers

[JimmyC Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close JimmyC]

Has anyone had experience with these?
https://www.superiorengineering.com....filter=242,355
It's going to cost me 500 to do the ball joints alone. Maybe it's worth doing the whole arm? Then I will have all new bushes through that area.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Jimmy,

The Superior arms have some issues with the uniball, steer clear for now.

What is the issue with the 150 oem ball joint that means it needs replacing?

The upper arm can be removed without touching the lower arm/cams, so you theoretically should not need a new wheel alignment.

Choosing a replacement upper control arm is a very difficult choice, not only due to the ridiculous cost of some arms, but also due to a lack of information about how much caster the after market arm can give you, and at what open length the after market arm binds at. Neither of these figures is at all reliable, and many purchase very fancy after market arms and end up being disappointed with wheel alignment figures.

The OEM ball joint binds at 575mm open length, and there isn't much that I know of that goes past this, aside from the SPC arms which have had many, many development issues.

I do not believe a word that after market UCA manufacturers quote in terms of built-in or adjustable caster.

Many after market ball joints also have the same or less angular range than the OEM ball joint (which has 90 deg of motion), and end up binding the double wishbone at the same open length as OEM, therefore restricting the maximum strut open length that you can run.

Before you splash out $500, check Amayama prices for genuine ball joints!

Best

Mark

[Mozz Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mozz]

Whitey you said this about the Superior arms what does it mean.

The Superior arms have some issues with the uniball, steer clear for now

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Whitey you said this about the Superior arms what does it mean.

The Superior arms have some issues with the uniball, steer clear for now

Hey Mozz,

The usual story with uniballs, short lifetime before they're corroded/rubbed down from exposure to the elements, they end up rattling around, squeaking etc.

Uniballs are great in the desert racing scene in the USA, but these guys are changing them out after a single race sometimes.

Uniball arms have their place, so do ball joint arms, but none of them are free of design flaws.

If you run IFS you need to keep an eye on it, something in it is always wearing out!

Best

Mark

[JimmyC Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close JimmyC]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your advice. It is a tough decision to make but the uniball point is a good one, I did notice that they look different to other joints.
So the boot on my driver's upper joint has been split for maybe 15,000km and we have been nursing it by overgreasing it but it's making me nervous so I just want to get it sorted.
I got quoted $34/side for Terrain Tamer brand ball joints and was advised that, like with most suspension related work it is better to do both sides at the same time. The work quote was about 4.5 hours total labour (he said it was all dependent on how long it took to press the joint, may be easy, may be hard) and will require a wheel alignment afterwards.
I was planning on spending some time wd40-ing the bolts and where the ball joint presses the night before it goes in to make their job as easy as possible for them.

[foxclan Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close foxclan]

From my experience in replacing OEM ball joints at the same time as upper and lower control arm bushes on our 120 series.
I think the quoted time you received for replacement seems reasonable, Jimmy.
Could take less and could take longer.
I had sourced "Roadsafe" brand from Bursons Automotive.
The time consuming part is making pressing tools and supports for the control arm.
The right hand ball joint failed within the warranty period and was replaced without drama.
I found that there was movement in the ball joint when giving the raised wheel a firm hold and shake.
Since installing these "Roadsafe" had released a 25mm extended ball joint especially for raised/lifted vehicles.
So second time around I went with those.
On investigating under the rubber boot of the failed ball joint, its grease was almost claggy and mostly gone.
Further cleanup revealed that the shaft bellow the actual ball had left a groove in the housing from obviously running out of operating angle.
Comparing this one to the OEM ball joint, pointed out the extra shaft angle available to the OEM unit.
I too was hoping for the quoted extra caster adjustment that the extended units boast.
The angle travel of the shaft is identical to the standard units.
Troy

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Troy,

Could you clarify if you mean you went through two types of Roadsafe ball joints? ...and that the investigation you had under the boot was on the first type of Roadsafe ball joint?

Agree with you about the angular range, I only know of one after market arm which definitely goes past the OEM ball joint bind open length of 575mm. All others give same or less travel on the double wishbone.

What did your caster end up at with the Roadsafe joints? Is that Roadsafe ball joint able to be rotated to different positions like the SPC ball joint?

All non-adjustable after market arms with claims of big built-in caster based on ball joint position in the arm are highly misleading. Lots of disappointed folks out there with fixed after market arms that don't give as much caster as they claim in lifted geometry. Camburgs stand out as an example.

Many of the after market arms are full of development and manufacturing issues, it's very hard to find something decent that will last a while.

I am currently trialing a new set of interesting arms from Fulcrum, I'll be posting a thread on them soon!

Best

Mark

[foxclan Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close foxclan]

Hey Troy,

Could you clarify if you mean you went through two types of Roadsafe ball joints? ...and that the investigation you had under the boot was on the first type of Roadsafe ball joint?

Agree with you about the angular range, I only know of one after market arm which definitely goes past the OEM ball joint bind open length of 575mm. All others give same or less travel on the double wishbone.

What did your caster end up at with the Roadsafe joints? Is that Roadsafe ball joint able to be rotated to different positions like the SPC ball joint?

All non-adjustable after market arms with claims of big built-in caster based on ball joint position in the arm are highly misleading. Lots of disappointed folks out there with fixed after market arms that don't give as much caster as they claim in lifted geometry. Camburgs stand out as an example.

Many of the after market arms are full of development and manufacturing issues, it's very hard to find something decent that will last a while.

I am currently trialing a new set of interesting arms from Fulcrum, I'll be posting a thread on them soon!

Best

Mark

Hi Mark
You are correct.
It was the first "Standard replacement" Road safe ball joint that cacked it.
Disappointed that the OEM shaft travel was not equaled by the replacement.
If only the OEM thread on the ball joint had not been damaged during removal from spindle they would have stayed in the UCA.
No Adjustability with the Road safe units, purely replacement.
Have pondered the UCA's with adjustable ball joint, but wonder if they may flog out in the adjustment slot/square.
Mark, how is the ball joint fixed/located into the UCA.
Cheers
Troy

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Hey Troy,

Do you have any photos of the Roadsafe arms on your IFS?

The ball joint is normally a press-fit with a snap ring.

Do you have any issues with the Roadsafe arms hitting the coils, and do you know what open length the Roadsafe ball joint is binding the double wishbone at?

I've written up a thread about the new Fulcrum arms I'm trialing here;

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...s-from-Fulcrum

These arms have a camber slot and a rotating caster plate which allows the ball joint to be adjusted through 4 different caster settings.

I know SPC went through 2 iterations of torque on the ball joint nut to stop it moving in the camber slot in the SPC arms, but the Fulcrum arms have a different design where the nut does up, with 3 plates coming together, it's like doing up a giant spring washer compared to the flat plate on the SPC.

Time will tell how the Fulcrum arms behave!

Best

Mark

[P W Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close P W]

Hi Mark, Troy,
I had the Superior Engineering arms fitted when the new suspension went in. They appear to be going good at this time. Only done about 10,000Km so far, though. Put them in as my mechanic showed me how the standard arms were hitting all the coils of any of the other vehicles he fitted with raised suspension.
Phil