KDSS suspension - is it any better than standard suspension?

[yowie Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close yowie]

Looks like I will be buying a 200 series to tow a bigger van (about 2,800 kgs ATM - above the Prado weights). A GXL auto diesel will probably be the go, however, the KDSS suspension is not standard on this model (it is standard on all other models, including the manual GXL, but not the base model). For those of you with the KDSS on the Prado, is the KDSS much better than standard suspension? Toyota want about $3,000 as an optional extra.

The KDSS is standard on the VX 200, but I can do without most of the extras on the VX, and the VX is $10,000 more than the GXL.,

[Guest Close Guest]

Save your $3K and put it towards high end fully adjustable gear.

[cuda Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close cuda]

Looks like I will be buying a 200 series to tow a bigger van (about 2,800 kgs ATM - above the Prado weights). A GXL auto diesel will probably be the go, however, the KDSS suspension is not standard on this model (it is standard on all other models, including the manual GXL, but not the base model). For those of you with the KDSS on the Prado, is the KDSS much better than standard suspension? Toyota want about $3,000 as an optional extra.

The KDSS is standard on the VX 200, but I can do without most of the extras on the VX, and the VX is $10,000 more than the GXL.,

I've notice little or no body roll when turning corners faster than normal. Watch the youtube video that demonstrates its performance.

[dBC Member Find all posts View Profile Close dBC]

I'm blown away by how little body roll there is when you push it through a winding mountain road in Sport setting; it reminds me of my of my old Disco-II with ACE (but without all the pump noises). And once in low-range it gives you some pretty impressive wheel droop. I wanted to test out the diff locks and took mine to some cross-ditches that I'm pretty sure I used once to unload wheels on my old 120, but I couldn't come close in the 150. The pics don't really do it justice, but it seemed no matter what angles I tried it was able to keep the wheels fully loaded.

[iDestiny Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close iDestiny]

Within the space of one month I drove a Volvo XC60 and Kakadu on the same same windy (but pacey) road (Yes, two different vehicles and two different time points). I stuck to the speed limit and was on cruise control for both trips. Volvo XC60 was first and Kakadu was the latter trip. I had to use the breaks on the corners much more on the XC60 compared to the Kakadu. Actually, the Toyota was remarkably more poised than the euro compact SUV. I genuinely thought the opposite might be true.

Again, two different vehicles, two different time points. May be the Toyota suites my style of driving. I don't know. May be I was expecting the Toyota to be be a lot worse, and set the bar too low and was pleasantly surprised. Again, I don't know. But I do remember thinking to my self 'where was the body-roll all the reviewers were carrying on about?'... So may be, yeah, the KDSS does offer a very perceptible difference? I have no experience driving a GXL though...

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

For those of you with the KDSS on the Prado, is the KDSS much better than standard suspension?

Hey,

Without modification of any kind and at oem factory ride height, I have measured 100mm of droop front and rear on a nearly new V6 Kakadu with kdss. That droop is no different to the droop on a factory oem ride height 120 or 150 GXL.

So at oem ride height, the kdss does not offer any articulation advantage. If you like your Prado to sit steady through corners, then you'll like kdss.

The question that really needs answering is does the kdss limit the potential droop in lifted geometry when you raise the Prado up, which most owners will eventually want to do.

The answer to that is dictated by the limits of the swaybar arc with kdss, compared to non-kdss swaybars.

I don't know the answer to that question, but I suspect it is considerably easier to extend the swaybar arc limit on a non-kdss GXL.

Buying a GXL means you also have a lot more money for upgrades!

Best

Mark

[dBC Member Find all posts View Profile Close dBC]

Without modification of any kind and at oem factory ride height, I have measured 100mm of droop front and rear on a nearly new V6 Kakadu with kdss. That droop is no different to the droop on a factory oem ride height 120 or 150 GXL.
Mark

That is interesting. And you had the KDSS vehicle in low range? At the time I did my ditch tests above I did have the rear air suspension set to High, not sure if that makes any difference, at least to the rear droop?

[yowie Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close yowie]

Thank you for the replies.

[Bobcrusader Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bobcrusader]

I'd be surprised if the front and rear droop are the same at 100mm. The rear should have a lot more travel than the IFS front, i would have thought?

To answer the question, though, it depends on your driving preference. I had a 120 GXL and found it rode fine, for a real 4x4. Now I have a VX 150 with KDSS and find it is more 'sporty' - it defies physics somewhat through those twisty slowpoints. The little extra travel will come in handy, but I'd spend $3K on a lift given the choice.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

I'd be surprised if the front and rear droop are the same at 100mm. The rear should have a lot more travel than the IFS front, i would have thought?

Hey,

Dec 2010 build V6 Kakadu;

Front

DS 773/870 PS 774/868 (oem ride height/full droop) = 97/94

Rear

DS 790/892 PS 803/905 (oem ride height/full droop) = 102/102

The front and rear droop on the Prado is always around 100mm on factory oem suspension. If you use the correct length front struts and rear shocks in lifted geometry, same deal, 100mm droop front and rear.

Best

Mark

[Bobcrusader Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bobcrusader]

Is droop a relevant measure for real world use? Droop is measured how - by lifting the car by the chassis? KDSS improves total wheel travel, which is more relevant for offroading, right? Applying upward force on the opposite end of a live axle will cause more droop, which the KDSS helps to allow.

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Is droop a relevant measure for real world use? Droop is measured how - by lifting the car by the chassis? KDSS improves total wheel travel, which is more relevant for offroading, right? Applying upward force on the opposite end of a live axle will cause more droop, which the KDSS helps to allow.

Hey Bob,

Yes.

Yes.

Not so sure!

Does KDSS improve total wheel travel? I have not seen figures to indicate that this is the case.

How much droop occurs is dependent ultimately on the open length of the rear shocks. What open length does the rear kdss limit you to?

Keeping the swaybar in and the kdss active means you have to compare it to the geometry of a GXL with the swaybar remaining in. Arc limit of the OEM swaybar is around 615mm open length, and can be extended to 645mm with longer swaybar links.

So can you run rear shocks out to 645mm with kdss, or would you be topping out on the kdss rather than the shocks?

Would be interesting to know the geometrical limits of the kdss!

Best

Mark

[Bobcrusader Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bobcrusader]

Have a read of this too: http://www.4x4australia.com.au/drive...ado-kdss-test/

[Whitey Shockie Maker of the Month Award Find all posts View Profile Close Whitey]

Have a read of this too: http://www.4x4australia.com.au/drive...ado-kdss-test/

Hey,

Cheers, yep have seen that article before.

I'm not sure where in the suspension geometry those numbers refer to, articulated, horizontal, hub/guard seems too small, no idea! Certainly they claim that a GXL in OEM trim does't flex as well as the kdss. Fair enough!

The real question is can the kdss keep up in terms of what you can do to a GXL with after market suspension, which is also what my previous numbers referred to. Not many people keep their Prado at OEM ride height, at least not the people on this forum!

Can someone with kdss post up some figures and flex shots so we can compare to a flexed up (swaybar-in) after market GXL?

Best

Mark