90 series drivetrain strength

[Raisin Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Raisin]

Hi all, so I still have my 98 Prado GXL with the 5vz-fe, however, one thing that has bugged me since I bought it is how gutless and slow it is. I'm at the point where I want to add more power or else I'm going to flog it off and buy something else. I am considering doing an LS swap in the Prado for some extra grunt, but don't want to start chasing broken diffs, driveshafts, transfer cases or gearboxes. How strong are the drivetrain components in this from the factory? Will they handle a bone stock LS engine churning away in 4th up hills with 2 tons of trailer, racecar and parts? I am struggling to find much info online from people who have actually completed the swap and used it for towing.

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

Honestly mate, you'd have to love your car to consider the swap- If you wanted to go the petrol why not just get a 100 series V8, although not the fastest things in the world they can be tickled up (and would actually have the room to do an LS swap if you wanted to). Even a 120 V6 would have a lot more grunt than what you've got. By the time you've got an LS into the prado (would it even fit?) you're looking at punching well over double the factory power and torque into a driveline that's 20 years old- I'd suggest that at best you'd have a very expensive project on your hands that'll cost way more than the cars worth and will deliver a car that's inferior to something you can just go and buy off the shelf.

[Raisin Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Raisin]

Honestly mate, you'd have to love your car to consider the swap- If you wanted to go the petrol why not just get a 100 series V8, although not the fastest things in the world they can be tickled up (and would actually have the room to do an LS swap if you wanted to). Even a 120 V6 would have a lot more grunt than what you've got. By the time you've got an LS into the prado (would it even fit?) you're looking at punching well over double the factory power and torque into a driveline that's 20 years old- I'd suggest that at best you'd have a very expensive project on your hands that'll cost way more than the cars worth and will deliver a car that's inferior to something you can just go and buy off the shelf.

As far as I can tell, an LS should fit in the Prado bay pretty well. It's a pushrod V8 so it's not as tall or wide as the 5vz-fe. And there's plenty of dead space infront of the V6 in the bay that should allow a V8 to be squeezed in there. I've seen LS engines shoehorned into much smaller bays. I'm handy enough with tools that I'm willing and able to do all the work myself too.

As for options, if I'm going to stick with a 4wd I'd rather stick with this 90 series Prado. It's been close to my family for over a decade now as I bought it from some close family friends. I like the simplicity of the 90 series electronics wise too. It will make running standalone engine management on the LS a lot easier. At the moment, my alternative tow option is a VE series SS Commodore wagon in manual, but they run around the $20-25k mark. I got offered $3.5k for my Prado with 201,000km on the clock and it's a very tidy body and interior. I was thinking if that's the going rate for them I may as well look into an LS swap for the thing because I reckon I could get it done and running for under $10k doing the work myself and calling in a few favours with friends.

I saw this kit and am trying to see if this Prado has the 160mm or 190mm input shaft.
https://www.marks4wd.com/engine-conv.../mfk650g3.html

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

If you're doing all the work it changes the financial side a bit- But I honestly can't see that driveline putting up with all that extra power and torque you'd be asking it to deal with- especially now that it's not exactly new. You'd be looking at running a Haltech or something as the brainbox for the LS I'm guessing?

5zfe specs- 145 KW and about 300 NM of torque

LS1 (as specced in VT) - 171 and 375 NM (obviously those things have the potential for huge numbers and the VT was pretty much the lowest power application of the LS1 in Oz) - the VY SS made nearly 240 KW stock.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

The LS1 was introduced in the VT series II and it put out 220kW and 446Nm. With the right parts 300kW was easy. 171kW and 375Nm was the supercharged V6.

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

My bad, I think I got those figures from the wrong Holden forum- you think those guys would know what they're on about. I know they've got potential for massive power though- same as those barra motors in Fords.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

No worries, I had one of each at one time. The rear suspension was a hateful thing. Chassis too weak for the torque. Left the VT and didn't have another Holden until the VE and VF. No more though.

Back on topic not sure the LS swap is that good an idea, surely a 1GR-FE would be a simpler swap and less likely to destroy the bits? The front diff is a problem child as it is in a 90. Or if you want the V8 rumble grab a 1UZ-FE.

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

I think the driveline would handle extra hp effortlessly if used for highway or towing work. The car is constant AWD which thus sharing the hp.
But if taken offload with lockers etc, you could be in the position of dumping all that hp on one axle or even one wheel and for sure things will break. Front CV's break with the feeble output of the 3.4 when loaded hard in the bush.
The 90 was optioned with the D4D (not here) which makes a load of torque.
A Google search will show 90's with 1UZ's. Looks quite happy in there, would not like to work on it though.
The later model Prados have improved chassis strength and of course they DON'T have the 90's crazy lower ball joint setup.
The cheapest option for a 3.4 would be to supercharge, well under your $10k target without the hassles of an engine swap. The blokes running supercharge kits are still on stock ecu too. Aftermarket engine management is a huge cost.
I run a KZ so I'm well aware of the lack of hp. When finances permit I hope to D4D the old girl, donor will be a HiLux.
Nothing like $10k with my labour and an engine that actually bolts in, electricals being the major hassle.

[Raisin Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Raisin]

Thanks for the responses guys. Like I said before, the actual task of getting an LS swapped in and running is not an issue to me. I've done plenty of car work and have a couple of track cars currently.

My main curiosity was to see how much power the drivetrains have been known to take which based on your feedback it doesn't really seem like it would handle it. I was hoping that it was over engineered back in the day like some other cars that'll happily take 2-3 times the factory power through their drivetrain with nothing more than a clutch upgrade.

I appreciate the feedback. I'll give it a little bit of thought and possibly end up selling it for something else. If it's a tow car I need it to be reliable, not leave me stranded halfway between Sydney and Adelaide after a track day.

[carco Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close carco]

If you want a serious home built tow vehicle you couldn't go past a GU patrol + 6BT.
Effortless power and far better economy than a modern diesel like the Cruiser.
Only RWD so you will break diffs if you go nuts, but they're an excellent tow machine.
Nobody seems to fit them in a Cruiser though, AWD makes more sense to me than the Patrol.

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

Patrols have better drivelines than LC's (as much as it pains me to admit) They've basically indestructible, the GU patrol is probably more similar to the 80 series than the 100- Live axel, still built like a truck. Also Cruisers all have pretty good engine options- If you were going a 100 series then the FTE is probably the best motor Toyota ever made, and the 200 series has the TTD VDJ which will pull anything you want it to. The thing to remember with exotic engine swaps is that they're great when they're working, but it'd be a nightmare to find parts for a 6BT/ Duramax/ Chev 6.5 in Brisbane, let alone somewhere truly remote.

In saying that, the 3.0 liter in those Patrols should only be sold to powder monkeys and other explosives experts- The general population shouldn't be able to own grenades. Truly a horrible engine to have in something that big.

[snuffvr4 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close snuffvr4]

Do it! Driveline will be fine unless you fit a crazy clutch and abuse it. I put a 2JZGTE in mine, single turbo etc and it went really well

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

It's a crime to put an engine that valuable into a 90 :P That belongs in a Supra doing mad skidz and drifting

[t303 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close t303]

It's a crime to put an engine that valuable into a 90 :P That belongs in a Supra doing mad skidz and drifting

I was about to say the opposite:

it's a shame to put that engine in something as valuable as a 90. :P

[Atherton Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Atherton]

Haha, we've got different opinions on that one I would have thought that they'd be really expensive- You could probably buy several LS's for the price of a 2J