Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

[Ryzz Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryzz]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

150 series Recovery Points -

Wow, that was a hard task... I have contacted two industry leading fabricators of recovery points and 4wd products. They shall have 150 series recovery points fabricated and load test rated, within the next couple of months.

Great news, look forward to seeing these developed and used in anger.

Two bloody phone calls, that was hard... :?

Glad you got somewhere with it, countless members have been asking ARB for a stance on this with nothing but deafening silence for months so far. Can I ask who the fabricators are?

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

load test rated

They'll be first in market with a rated recovery point

[joey Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close joey]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Its with much regret that i will not be able to make the get together this year..

Due to a promotion with my company and a new roster that now clashes with the dates for the event.

Thanks to Matt, Mav and Samo and crew for the efforts in organising and hopefully will get down that way around Christmas to have a beer and maybe another stocko mission...

thanks again....

Joey

[QUICKY Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close QUICKY]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements



these arrived today, I orderd them on monday morning and delived by auspost this morning, $110 deliverd including nuts,bolts,washers and instuctions.

link-- http://www.allterrain4x4.com.au/4x4-acc ... gory_id=50


info from website
Recovery points - Toyota Prado 120 series 2003 on.

Rated to 9.4 tonne, The All Terrain Recovery hooks are a must for all current model Prado's.

Beware - Original hoops which are welded onto plates and bolted onto the chassis rails are only used by the manufacturer for tie down points in transit, these are NOT load rated recovery points.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Rated to 9.4 tonne

By who and to what standard? There should be a NATA certificate available.

[D4D Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4D]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

load test rated

They'll be first in market with a rated recovery point

Well,

I guess you are correct. They test all there points before marketing them to the public.

Regards,

Care to share the manufacturer?

[samo Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close samo]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

thanxs for that joey, shame ya cant make it but the GTG doesnt pay the bills. dont forget to pm MAV and tell him ya cant make it. cheers samo

[Big Fella Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Big Fella]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Rated to 9.4 tonne

By who and to what standard? There should be a NATA certificate available.

A NATA endoresed certificate will only be issued if the item is tested to an accredited Australian Standard and if that lab is certified for that standard. Or if the lab has an approved internal stanfard registered with NATA.

[QUICKY Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close QUICKY]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Rated to 9.4 tonne

By who and to what standard? There should be a NATA certificate available.

There certainly has been a lot of discussion about "rated" recovery points in particular in regards to the GTG rules. I looked back to page 1 of this thread and it states

6) Front recovery points fitted to the chassis. These are about $120 and you can get them fitted at any Opposite Lock, TJM or ARB workshop. See this thread for info (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1898&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=80) . Samo and I use a receiver mounted rear recovery point as well, but some people don't like them and that is just a personal preference. Once again, if the front points are not fitted.. no day trips

No mention of "rated" recovery points is mentioned so there shouldn't be a problem with any commercially avaiable or home made points. Got to be better than the tie down points that come standed. A lot of people have questioned the rated claim of commercial recovery points but no one seems to question rated shackles or snach straps, has any one seen a test certificate for any of these items, they are made to a standed and probably only have a small percentage of those made tested



I contacted All Terrain 4X4 this week and had them fax me a copy of the test certificate for their 120 recovery points and it appears above. I hope this document helps. 46 kN converts to 4.69 metric tonnne if i have converted it correctly.I assume you get the 9.4 tonne rateing by useing the two points in the kit. I checked the Beaver web site and they are a NATA approved test lab.

[bgreeni Member Find all posts View Profile Close bgreeni]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

I assume you get the 9.4 tonne rateing by useing the two points in the kit.

That is exactly the problem. This "certificate" tells you nothing except that something failed in a test.

For a to be of any value it needs to be tested against a standard. As far as I know there is no standard for recovery points. For shackles etc thes is a standard and they can be tested against it and certified. The other problem is that you do not rate something at its failure load, but at some % of that - again defined in the standard. I would never design a structural member to be loaded up to its failure or yield stress.

This whole business of "rated recovery points" is full of problems. I am not saying that you do not need recovery points and will get something fitted, but I will not labour under any misconception about their being a certified item. There are just to many variables. The recovery point is also just one item in a whole series of items from subframe through to the subframe on the recovery vehicle. All will be loaded during a recovery. Another concern I have is the insistance on high tensile bolts. These provide no extra capacity unless correctly tightened, and unless the surfaces are correctly prepared. The extra capacity of a joint using high tensile bolts is created by the additional friction between the two surfaces as they are clamped together with higher forces than with a normal bolt. The high tensile bolt does not provide signifigant extar shear strength.

[QUICKY Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close QUICKY]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

You will have ulcers and grey hair soon Matt. The recovery points will do the job for what you have in mind for the GTG and I think that if you need to do a snatch recovery that puts that much strain on the recovery points that you are likley to do damage it's time to look at another recovery method

[samo Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close samo]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

bugger me this just keeps going on on on and on,

This "certificate" tells you nothing except that something failed in a test.

well thats not entirely right IMO, this certificate tells me that this recovery point over a test of 2 minutes duration took a load of upto 4.7 tonne and failed under load at 1.50 minute ish,, and to back quicky up i beleive thats how they get the 9.4 tonne rating using 2 recovery points, the way in which the information is pertrayed in the swl sticker could be explained a bit better

Another concern I have is the insistance on high tensile bolts. These provide no extra capacity unless correctly tightened, and unless the surfaces are correctly prepared. The extra capacity of a joint using high tensile bolts is created by the additional friction between the two surfaces as they are clamped together with higher forces than with a normal bolt. The high tensile bolt does not provide signifigant extar shear strength.

when tightening a bolt what is the correct method ? tighten to a correct tension, eg till you break the spanner, to the correct nm? , till you crush the chassis ?as for surface preparation what is the correct preparation? clean, painted etc As for high tensile bolts i beleive they do provide a higher shear strength, a simple test is go and get a std not high tensile m12 bolt in a vice and hit it with a chisel and a 4 lb hammer, eg chisel it in half, and try the same thing with a 8.8 grade high tensile i bet my balls it is harder to chisel of then the std grade bolt. i beleive this will replicate an example of shearing. im not replying to this to start an arguement im just showing how many variables there r in a recovery, and the reason we set this as a requirement is to at least try and have a minimum std of safety to make it safer for ppl involved in the recovery and less damaging to vehicles, thats my 2 cents. cheers samo

[graphite bullet Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close graphite bullet]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

gaday GTG people
good news Mannell motors at Thornleigh Sydney has just started making aftermarket front recovery hooks for the 150
one step closer to the GTG

[Richoson Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Richoson]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Hi Folks

Discussing this point with Toyota and ARB this week and here are their answers,

ARB: They have taken recovery points off the 150 bar as the "issue of public liabilty is of far greater importance than providing an alternative towing point", they also said that they had still not had an after market supplier with a "rated recovery point". On a non official point the staffer said you can put all the "rated recovery points" you like on but the chassis of the car is still subject to the manufacturers recomendation and warranty and the chassis does not have a "rated recovery number".

Toyota: If a recovery is required and the existing "tow points" are used providing there is not obvious evidence of misuse then they are covered by warranty. If aftermarket points are used the warranty is null and void.

Others have noted that the friction point is a key to strength and this is correct, but if you put a 12mm recovery plate on a 3mm chassis rail if the friction co-efficent is exceeded then the next point of failure is the chassis.

Regards, Richo.

[damonat Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close damonat]

Re: Minimum Vehicle Preperation Requirements

Hi Folks

Discussing this point with Toyota and ARB this week and here are their answers,

ARB: They have taken recovery points off the 150 bar as the "issue of public liabilty is of far greater importance than providing an alternative towing point", they also said that they had still not had an after market supplier with a "rated recovery point". On a non official point the staffer said you can put all the "rated recovery points" you like on but the chassis of the car is still subject to the manufacturers recomendation and warranty and the chassis does not have a "rated recovery number".

Toyota: If a recovery is required and the existing "tow points" are used providing there is not obvious evidence of misuse then they are covered by warranty. If aftermarket points are used the warranty is null and void.

Others have noted that the friction point is a key to strength and this is correct, but if you put a 12mm recovery plate on a 3mm chassis rail if the friction co-efficent is exceeded then the next point of failure is the chassis.

Regards, Richo.

the GTG team have set down vehicle requirements. these are no different to any other (4WD clubs/groups) trip minimums.
they have/are putting alot into the arrangements for this event.
if you don't have what is required (MVPR). i'm sure you'll enjoy your own company at base camp.
i'm going and i don't want to have to put up with people/vehicle damage.
that's what it comes down to.
i have the minimums and i'll enjoy the days trips like most others.
richo, you're no exception to the rule.