VX or Kakadu & interfering front add ons

[2013 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 2013]

Ripper forum but the more I read the less I figured I knew.

Would appreciate some help in choosing between the VX & Kakadu please guys. The missus wants some luxury for a long term purchase & figures we go the whole hog with the Kakadu. I would like to add a bullbar or nudge bar that can take spotlights but have read some posts that say the camera is partially blocked & by the bar & the cruise & collision radars. I don't want a winch but do want my own lights (already purchased)

I was like a kid in a lolly shop reading through this site & as such have lost where the posts are that each talked about these things. Can you guys help out a beginner looking at buying either (we just want a comfortable tourer that can go lots of places without all the extra mods & tow a heavy trailer). So many of you talk about getting lifts & new suspension etc - is this necessary for what I have suggested our use will be?

We don't care about the sunroof or are that particular about the rear entertainment system but the kids would argue against that. The reversing guides on the display are a winner for the missus as is the 'leather' seats. The KDSS is something we both liked

What do you guys reckon?

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

Another Kakadu owner here and happy enough so far. Don't buy one for the leather though, it's only in the seat facings and IMO not the best quality. Mine's an 09 model and does not have the radar as it came with the "off-road pack" that does not include it, I'm not sure if it is now standard on the Kakadu. I can confirm the camera does get partially blocked by the bar and spotties, I also have the IPF lights on my TJM bar.

Like Steve I've also had stronger springs fitted to the front as I have both a steel bar and a winch. The Kakadu isn't quite as easy to modify the suspension setup on thanks to the KDSS but it is do-able. If you are towing you will probably appreciate the air bag suspension in the rear. There's lots of traction control goodies on the Kakadu you may never use if you're just towing but they are nice to have if you plan to do any off-road.

How heavy is your trailer/camper? IIRC the weight limit for towing with the LWB Prado is 2,500 KGs, the SWB (aka Shorty) is 2,900 KGs. Note the Kakadu is only available in a LWB version, the top model SWB is the ZR.

[2013 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 2013]

Thanks Steve for the information & welcome as well as Fido666 & Jasen for your input.

Fido, when my trailer is fully loaded then it would be close enough to the 2.5 ton vehicle limit. The radar sounds impressive especially as I have never had cruise in any of my private cars (now I can take my boot off the accelerator & put it back on my foot & use real cruise control - only joking)

Disappointing about the leather but neither of us noticed when we got in. It would seem a waste to refit with new better quality leather until later if at all. I dont mind sheepskin wife hates it. Have spent the better part oif the day looking for prados with bull bars & found a thread by kakdaz with heaps of pics. I liked the TJM T3, both ARB deluxe combo & Sahara & the white smart bar. At the moment I would also look at getting some extras whiuch work out to just under $5000 (bar snorkel, tow bar, mats inc boot, weather shields, headlight & bonnet protectors, roof bars & tint. Are the light & bonnet protectors just overkill? Are the weathershields useful & really that necessary as well? I have weather shields on one of my cars at the moment & almost always have my window down but then I dont have a working aircon or good demister.

I have read different post & some people mention a 'dreaded lean' on this forum. If I get these add ons will I have this problem too? Steve, you said you got 30mm lift. A dealer told me that the Toyota genuine bar doesnt need a lift because it is within its 'tolerance range' but I would think that 60+kg on the front would have to have some sort of negative effect as opposed to 4 x 80 to 100 kg adults spread out over the front & rear axles????
so need a lift if I add

[2013 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close 2013]

Sorry guys I thought I lost my reply when I hit send & it said that it might not be save so I hit send again.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

Fido, when my trailer is fully loaded then it would be close enough to the 2.5 ton vehicle limit.

Well you probably need to confirm that on a weighbridge but as I don't tow I'm not the best to advise you there.

The radar sounds impressive especially as I have never had cruise in any of my private cars

Radar and Cruise Control are 2 separate things, the radar is for collision avoidance. As I don't have it I can't comment on how well it works and driving around town I've never used cruise control either.

Disappointing about the leather but neither of us noticed when we got in. It would seem a waste to refit with new better quality leather until later if at all.

I've just been quoted ~$1500 by Mr Toyota to replace the seat base on my driver's seat as the leather is wearing on the bolster on the edge (so the bit your right thigh would rub on getting out of the vehicle). Given my Kaka is under 4 years old I find that pretty disappointing. That and the fact the backs and sides of the seats are only vinyl is why I'm disappointed, I don't think the quality/construction of the upholstery matches the price premium they charge for the Kakadu. As I understand it you could get an auto trimmer to re-upholster all the seats in full leather for ~$3000 so $1500 just for a seat base is ridiculous.

Are the light & bonnet protectors just overkill? Are the weathershields useful & really that necessary as well?

I got headlight protectors but didn't bother with the bonnet one. I was told the headlights lenses are acrylic so don't need shields but I wanted to stop them getting scratched/pitted and a pair of Protective Plastics ones from Autobarn was cheap protection. Don't have weathershields as when I had them on our 80 series I found they just got in the way.

I have read different post & some people mention a 'dreaded lean' on this forum. If I get these add ons will I have this problem too?

It tends to happen when you put steel bullbars on, don't know about alloy ones. I seem to have more lean in the back then the front oddly enough, have recently fitted new front springs and waiting for them to settle before making any further alterations to the suspension setup.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

I read a lot about the dreaded lean and I'm no expert but my understanding is the KDSS has some kind of self levelling thingy that results in one coil spring being 30mm longer than the other. When a front lift is done on the Kakadu they have to use two different lengths of coil springs and there is no problem. If anyone in Perth is interested in a front lift I might be interested in going halfs on the two pairs of springs?

KDSS doesn't alter the length of the springs by itself, Toyota use 2 different length springs straight from the factory. So if you whack say a bullbar on the front and then use non-KDSS specific springs you will have problems since they would be 2 equal length springs.

No need to go halvsies with another Kakadu owner to get 2 different length springs, both Kings and Dobinsons have pairs specifically for KDSS equipped Prados. I personally have had Dobinsons C59-726 springs fitted to my Kakadu and my front end is sitting fairly level (there's only a few mm difference from one side to the other).

There is also a way of putting spacers in the rear suspension levelling sensors to lift the rear very cheaply if you want to look for the thread.

That's something that I'm looking at doing but not till the front settles.

I personally hate the Toyota towbar because of the big steel bar under the bumper so I went with a Trailboss towbar.

It makes a nice protection bar for the factory bumper when your off-roading though.

I didn't know your leather was wearing out I better keep an eye on mine now, might get some front seat covers.

It's not worn through but looks rough and the dye has been rubbed off.

The radar isn't just for collision avoidance when you have the cruise on if the car in front slows down the Kaka slows down automatically then if the car in front speeds up again the Kaka speeds back up automatically to the set speed keeping a safe distance.

Fair enough, I didn't know that. The salesman originally told me I had it but then couldn't find it when he went to demonstrate how it worked. On checking the manuals I worked out why, the previous owner ordered the off-road pack which back in 09 excluded the radar.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

Do you know what they cost is, I would install myself. Did you keep the shocks?

I was being quoted ~$200 odd for the Kings springs once freight was factored in. I paid a bit less for the Dobinsons, got them through #############. I don't know about fitting them yourself there's some tricky stuff to do with the KDSS linkages to deal with.

A few people have said doing the spacer lift could damage the original airbags.

If they get over-extended then it is possible to pop an airbag but so long as they are pinned at the bottom (which the Kakadu is) you should be OK. There's a bit of discussion in my build thread with some pics that might be worth reading.

I know what you mean about rear bumper protection but I'm just not keen on the look and its got to reduce the departure angle, don't you think?

Well yes but I also don't want to rip off my rear bumper by scraping its underside.

[vichel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vichel]

From what I have read am I right in assuming that the majority of you Kakadu owners with the adaptive cruise & pre collision radar do NOT have any interfering issues with spotties on their bars?

Did anyone have a problem & what did you put it down to?

I think I saw a post by Bawky who relocated his front camera. Has anyone else tried doing this themselves? Is it any easy operation?

I was told by ARB (Keilor Park) that the best option was for the Sahara Bar without the top alloy section to allow the Adaptive cruise control & pre collision radar to work more effectively. They couldn't tell me about any jobs they could remember where they had relocated the front camera.

Vic

[vichel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vichel]

Hey Jasen

I'll have to get my lights out of storage & throw back at you some measurements.

....I just tried to look them up online & I think they are 161mm wide x 90 high & 72 deep

Does your front end dive much under braking with your extra weight up front?

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

And no i did not get the dreaded KDSS lean so many talk about after the springs were fitted.

Did you check the rear as well?

[vichel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vichel]

Hey Vichel, I have the IPF900XS spotties and they are 215mm'' height x 200mm'' wide x 115mm'' deep and they do not interfere with the radar at all.

Great I reckon mine should be fine then.

does it dive much under braking with the extra weight?...YES! easy fix and cheap..get stronger front springs . I got the Old Man emu front springs $400 fitted

$400 is a dirt cheap fix.

I'm sure I was quoted around $1800-1900 from ARB for OME though??? Must recheck this - can't be that much difference between VIC & SA

Did you consider any other brands? I have read posts talking about Kings & Dobinsons as well. Is there much difference between all these or is it more like Coke & Pepsi?

Cheers

Vic

[vichel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vichel]

Did you check the rear as well?

Hey Fido

Is this a result of altering the front weight & changing the springs? Does it mean that you have to do something to the rear as well? Do you lose any functionality of any of the Kakadu features?

Vic

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

Is this a result of altering the front weight & changing the springs? Does it mean that you have to do something to the rear as well? Do you lose any functionality of any of the Kakadu features?

I've recently changed the front springs only for Dobinsons C59-726 and while my fronts are relatively level (815 mm left, 812 mm right) the rears seem to have a > 30 mm difference (816 mm left, 780 mm right). Not sure why that is as we haven't done any adjustments to the rear as yet. No loss of features since I still have the Toyota TEMS shocks.

[fido666 Banned Find all posts View Profile Close fido666]

That's an odd one, did you get it done in a shop, if so what did they say?

Also I'm sure you have told me before but did you keep the old shocks on so you keep the soft and hard settings?

No a fellow PPer ############# who is a vehicle tech with one very impressive workshop/shed did them for me. There's a possibility my driveway where I do the measuring isn't level enough so we're going to check it again when I take it back to Anthony for its post-fit checkup. Yes I kept the Toyota shocks on to retain the sports/comfort settings from the cabin switch.

Oh and yes definitely a difference in the nosedive department plus the extra clearance came in handy off-road. You may not notice as much difference since you have a lighter bar. If you wanted a small lift you could always go with just a strut spacer depending on the legality in your state of course.

I agree on the need to move the front camera since where it is now I mostly see the back of the spotties. Knowing that now I would have just mounted my winch box between the lights like most people and saved myself the expense of having the cables replaced so I could mount it to the side of the winch. I guess that's another problem for those of you with radar since I'm assuming a centrally mounted box would obscure it. Then again you have a Smartbar so I have no idea how you'd go about mounting a winch or even if you can.

[vichel Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vichel]

Yes I kept the Toyota shocks on to retain the sports/comfort settings from the cabin switch.

Is there a reason why you would have to remove / replace the shocks as well as the springs?