Announcement

KH Lee · 01-02-2018, 10:51 PM

I knew this for long time:
https://www.cancer.org.au/preventing...er/diesel.html

I went to a dealer 2 weeks ago to look at the new 2018 Kakadu and was asked to make an offer. I responded 81~82k.
Agent asked if I was sincere and he would speak to his boss.
I hesitated a while and declined eventually ... because it is a diesel engine.
If it is a petrol engine, I may have signed up a new contract and traded in my VX.

CamJam · 02-02-2018, 10:49 AM

If I could, I would trade my 2016 GXL 2.8 in for a current spec new V6. I've had enough of the issues, but the rest of the car is fine, and all the accessories I have would fit on it. As it stands, I think for real 4WD touring with at least 7 seats I am left with Nissan Patrol Ti at around $75K or a LC200 GXL Petrol at around $92K. Would appreciate any other options (Jeep not 7 seat, Land Rover not here with Petrol yet, Range Rover too small or pricey, Pajero now Diesel only, all the 4x4 Utes with reasonable power are only diesel also). There is just no 7-seat petrol 'proper' 4WD around the $55 - $75 mark left... and even above that there's only one until you hit $92K...

Atherton · 02-02-2018, 12:43 PM

I guess most of the reasons for buying a petrol 4wd aren't there anymore- (or the market seems to think so anyway) Diesels make more torque with smaller displacements and use considerably less fuel doing so. As far as I'm aware the DPF's on the new ones are specifically put there to make them much cleaner (same with Adblue)

CamJam · 02-02-2018, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by Atherton View Post

I guess most of the reasons for buying a petrol 4wd aren't there anymore- (or the market seems to think so anyway) Diesels make more torque with smaller displacements and use considerably less fuel doing so. As far as I'm aware the DPF's on the new ones are specifically put there to make them much cleaner (same with Adblue)

I think most (including me, when I bought a 2.8) go for it because of the perceived longevity of the diesels, plus the additional range they afford per tank of fuel. What the current 2.8 has done, however, is totally dispelled the myth of the ever-lasting diesel being made again.

The engine will likely truck on, but DPFs are failing, EGRs clogging, AdBlue add's admin and more fluid to take on a trip (including if the sensor fails to recognise it's got AdBlue in the tank then you're beached as, bro which has occurred on Ranger forums) and there are other issues I'm living with in the 2.8 that has turned me off them.

If I have to spend thousands replacing injectors (3.0L or V8) or thousands replacing DPFs out of warranty (2.8/ V8) - then what's the point? May as well have bought a Petrol and put all that money into fuel because I would at least have got a significant positive trade off for it - the Patrol 5.6 that we have at work uses around 5L/100 more than my 2.8 and yet it has 298Kw, not 130Kw and 560Nm of Torque, not 450Nm.

Anyway - some sour grapes from me for sure. Sorry - but I just got it back again from Toyota on Monday telling me now that although there is a bearing-like sounding squeal from the engine bay, everything is 'within spec' (they screen-shot OBDII data reports as I drove) and therefore there's nothing to worry about. I'm checking out the Nissan lot this afternoon. For me, the main benefit of the Diesel was the longevity - With Euro5/6 CRD/DPF/EGR/AdBlue that's no longer the case, as they're just as complicated as the high performance petrols. So it's simply a case of Power/Torque versus Range-per-tank for me. And I can fit a long-range tank on a petrol, but not increase the output of the diesels by 150%. As I say - would buy another Prado - but only a Petrol one.

Atherton · 02-02-2018, 01:30 PM

DPF clogging is an issue, although not for normal use. The problems people are having is because they are not driving them correctly. If you're just dropping your kids off to school and picking them up again every day, you will kill a DPF- They need prolonged highway speeds every week or so for about half an hour. Many people think DPFs and Adblue are new tech- They're simply not, our new trucks and machines out in the mines all had them- And they work flawlessly. The amount of Adblue new cars use is tiny- Ford actually said that most everest drivers probably won't even have to ever top it up, it'll be done at the dealership when the car is booked in for scheduled services. If you wanted to carry spare Adblue you'd literally only need a few liters of it in remote areas to get you back somewhere where you can fill up again. As for new petrols, sure they're much much more efficient than they used to be- And perhaps they are the future if diesel can't be cleaned up (although EV's are coming along pretty fast as well- So I'd imagine the short term future may be a Main EV motor with a backup petrol/ diesel generator). Diesel makes more sense for me because I live on a farm and it's easy to just have one bowser to fill everything up, in saying that I had a chance to drive my sisters 150 petrol, and that thing has some serious balls- Much better to overtake in that's for sure

stevensr34 · 02-02-2018, 03:07 PM

Diesel engines have become complex, expensive pieces of machinery, compared to what people fondly think of as "good old reliable Diesel" - which they were - in a bygone era.
They cost a lot more to buy, require more frequent servicing, and expensive parts replacement, than a petrol engine. And now, they don't even last as long!
In the meantime, the car companies have decided that petrol power is "out of fashion" and so are axing them everywhere. This is because customers are only shown the fuel economy figures, and not the whole picture of ownership, so they flock to the Diesel option. Pity the sticker on the windscreen didn't show the actual amounts of various pollutants for each engine!

Having said that, I'd actually prefer an electric Prado.. roll on Toyota...

120D4D · 02-02-2018, 04:15 PM

Originally posted by stevensr34 View Post

Pity the sticker on the windscreen didn't show the actual amounts of various pollutants for each engine!.

True. What would all of the Petrol drivers think when they saw how much more Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Monoxide they were producing over their Diesel friends!!

stevensr34 · 02-02-2018, 05:05 PM

Ha - yes very true.
But wait until they see the amount of Nitros Oxides, Sulphates, and Ultra-fine particles the Diesel is generating...

CO2/CO: bad for the planet, Diesel emissions: bad for humans... decisions, decisions...

MDS69 · 04-02-2018, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by Atherton View Post

DPF clogging is an issue, although not for normal use. The problems people are having is because they are not driving them correctly. If you're just dropping your kids off to school and picking them up again every day, you will kill a DPF- They need prolonged highway speeds every week or so for about half an hour. Many people think DPFs and Adblue are new tech- They're simply not, our new trucks and machines out in the mines all had them- And they work flawlessly. D

These are motor vehicles are they not. People only want to jump in and drive from A to B be it 15km round trip or 215km round trip. Why do they need to do a special trip once a week because the manufacturer has built in something stupid.

CamJam · 04-02-2018, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Atherton View Post

DPF clogging is an issue, although not for normal use. The problems people are having is because they are not driving them correctly. If you're just dropping your kids off to school and picking them up again every day, you will kill a DPF- They need prolonged highway speeds every week or so for about half an hour. Many people think DPFs and Adblue are new tech- They're simply not, our new trucks and machines out in the mines all had them- And they work flawlessly.

Sorry, but I don't buy this. I get the DPF issues on all makes if you trot around the suburbs. I certainly don't, and average around 45,000km per year (my car is 14 months old, shows 42,000km with a three month lay-off due being overseas). I do around 60% of driving above 80km/hr and for around 40min each way on my way to work. It's on its third DPF, which thankfully appears to have finally been all done and dusted/ fixed.

The Toyota DPF issues are NOT related to the way people drive them - it's happening regardless. I absolutely hear what you are saying with the short stints - it's not that at all.

And you're right with the trucks and the other industries having them go well - even in our segment you have other brands that just do not seem to have DPF issues (Jeep, Mitsubish have far far less issues by the looks of things). It's the Toyota DPF on the 2.8. I have been told by Toyota they're working on a fix, as it appears the ECU update works but is inefficient. Can't wait.

BiLLz0r · 04-02-2018, 06:16 PM

All this talk about petrol vs diesel has been plaguing me too. Our V6 Prado is getting on and we'd like something newer in the next 12 mths or so. Like Cam was saying, there is nothing out there that's a decent Petrol other than a Patrol and we don't want a V8 nor can afford something that expensive.
I almost came to the acceptance the next 4wd wagon will have to be a Diesel and narrowed it down to a MU-X (arguably the most reliable 4wd Diesel out there) or an Everest (I love the look, size and features). After thinking about it there is a good chance we'll end up with a 2016-17 V6 Prado. The last of the V6 Petrols.
Word is Ford may bring in the Ecoboost Petrol engines to the Ranger range at the end of this year but even if they do, they're only on brand new cars and we can't afford (nor want) a brand a new car. I can't bring myself to take a brand new $60+ car on the sand or in the bush.
Bring back the Petrol's!
Steven, who did you contact at Toyota as I wouldn't mind putting my 2c in their ear too?

Atherton · 04-02-2018, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by MDS69 View Post

These are motor vehicles are they not. People only want to jump in and drive from A to B be it 15km round trip or 215km round trip. Why do they need to do a special trip once a week because the manufacturer has built in something stupid.

To that I would reply that people need to buy vehicles that suit their needs- Chances are if you're doing those small trips with low kms (probably on bitumen) you should be driving a corolla (or other car)- Not a 4wd. As for why they are built in- It's a reality that Diesels are dirtier than petrols (by some measures) and that DPF's are an attempt to make them cleaner (same with Adblu).

BiLLz0r · 04-02-2018, 08:41 PM

[QUOTE=Atherton;580890]To that I would reply that people need to buy vehicles that suit their needs- Chances are if you're doing those small trips with low kms (probably on bitumen) you should be driving a corolla (or other car)- Not a 4wd./QUOTE]

How many cars should I buy. We sometimes go 4wding, we usually just drive on bitumen, I also like to tow things and carry things. Sometimes I cant afford much fuel or would like to lane filter. So now I have about 4 cars and a bike. I can't afford to do anything because the rego and insurance are huge and I needed to build a huge garage.

They are cars and should be able to run short and long trips. This is 2018, not 1948.

stevensr34 · 04-02-2018, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by BiLLz0r View Post

Steven, who did you contact at Toyota as I wouldn't mind putting my 2c in their ear too?

I filled in the following form:

https://www.toyota.com.au/contact-us...ryType=Website

Hope lots of others do this too... Might (or might not) get somewhere!

Announcement

2018 Facelifted Prado - lack of engine options likely to remain

2018 Facelifted Prado - lack of engine options likely to remain

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