Legality of combined 2" Lift with bigger Tyres

[Damienandwendy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damienandwendy]

Hi Guys,
I had posted this in the tyre section for 150's but didn't get a hit. Seems to be plenty of posts about tyres and suspension lifts but not the combined effect of both. As this is my first 4WD and it is still under warranty, I am probably being overly careful with the $50000 of motor car in the garage, but I would rather be safe than sorry.

I am looking at new tyres to replace the OEM ones that have now done almost 50,000km. I am also looking at a 2" lift. My understanding of the Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14 that most states are most likely going to adopt or already have adopted, is that the most you can raise your vehicle, without needing an engineer, is 2". So by getting any sort of bigger tyres (say from 265/65/17 up to 275/70/17) and a 2" lift you will need an engineer to certify the work so you don't void your insurance/registration.
I would be more than happy for someone to say I am wrong, but that's how I am reading it.

VSB14 - http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...tin/index.aspx

cheers

Damien

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Hi Damien, you can raise the vehicle by 2 inches no problems still all legal. Even without raising the vehicle, technically running 70 profile instead of 65 makes you ilegal. You are only allowed 15mm bigger rolling diameter over standard, eg I want to put muddies on mine, muddies in a 17 inch you can only get 70 profile, this raises the rolling diameter 28mm approx, so by fitting them to my vehicle makes the rolling diameter 13mm more then allowed making me ilegal, BUT Ive been looking at every prado I see with either A/T's and muddies and all seem to be running 70 profile so technically their all ilegal unless engineered.Been down that path myself in the last few weeks asking questions getting prices etc. I was quoted $250 at the cheapest to get an engineering certificate, requirements were to get speedo calibrated with the bigger tyres, then the engineer does a brake test and if all ok writes al the crap out, take to RTA and get it certified on my rego papers, a whole heap of crap just to run 70 profile tyres. Most later model prados are roughly 4 to 5k below the speed to what is actually showing on speedo, unfortunately myn is an 05 model and is exactly spot on so by running bigger tyres I need to get speedo calibrated which will be $85. My question to him then was well when I put my original alloy rims and tyres back on (Im running two set of rims) the speed will then be out again by 4k roughly, then he wanted me to fit some sort of electronic gadget with a switch on it so I can flick between the two, $500 later and needs to cut into speedo transmitter etc, not happening,Im not having anyone splicing into the speedo wiring from the gearbox and probably cause more troubles then its worth. Im just going to fit the 70 profile muddies up to the steel rims and put them on. I asked the a solicitor the other day if I drove into a tyre shop asked them to fit up some mud tyres to my vehicle, they put 70's on it and I drive away none the wiser and some thing happens and I get pinged for bigger tyres whos in the shit, he said the tyre fitter/shop will be, he has a duty of care selling the tyres to me and he should inform me either there ilegal and I sign some thing saying I take responability for them been fitted or if nothing is mentioned then he takes the lot if anything should happen. Its not like your trying to run 33's/35's or some thing like that. My mate works for vehicle inspections for NRMA and they dont even look at that UNLESS they are massive tyres/wheels hanging out guards or some thing thats heavily modified which they wont insure anyway. I even told NRMA last time I was running the bigger tyres on the 90 that they were A/T's and slightly bigger diameter then standard and was even on my insurance papers, I had to make a claim on my old hilux which also ran bigger wheels and nothing was ever mentioned but wasnt my fault either. There have been heaps of other prados running bigger size and had to make claims and never been an issue. Some also said they would have to prove that running the bigger tyre caused the accident ?? I know where your coming from and want to keep it legal Im the same but Im not paying over $1000 just to run 70 profile instead of 65, ridiculous. You can have a 2 inch lift and you can also have a 2 inch body lift and still all legal even NRMA will insure this, BUT any vehicle with AIRBAGS are not allowed a body lift, so that means you, me and any late model 4b with airbags are out of the question. You can get an A/T tyre in the same profile (65) but as Im running another set of rims I want the muddies for a change. So you have a choice, either fit them up and not worry about it, or get an engineers certificate pay the $$ and you will be legal. Regards Steve

[justdropby111 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close justdropby111]

Hi all first post for me here and after alot of reading and debating and many phone calls sitting looking at calculators blablabla.
i went for a set of goodyear wrangler armor lite 245/75-r17 up from the set of at20's at 245/70-r17's increaced my roll rate by 3.2% with in the legal 5% no lift kit and looks great.
good luck with all the suppliers Jason

[Damienandwendy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damienandwendy]

Thanks for that Steve and Jason,
In the end, I had to fit some new tyres sooner rather than later as I copped some scrap wire through the sidewall of one tyre and ended up buying a full set of 265/65/17 Bridestone D694LT's.
So I have stayed stock standard in size and will leave it at that for a while until the hole in the wallet gets filled.
They still look a lot better than the Grandtreks and I am happy so far.

cheers

Damien

[Way2go Member Find all posts View Profile Close Way2go]

Steve,

Having the tyres noted on your insurance means absolutely nothing. If you read the fineprint on your policy it states that it is up to you to ensure the vehicle is roadworthy (i.e. can be registered legally), so if they wanted to avoid a payout the insurer would still go over the vehicle with a fine toothcomb and not payout if they found something that could invalidate the insurance.

The cheapest I've found an engineering certificate for was $300 + GST, plus another $220 + GST for the GPS check - recalibrating the speedo was additional to that.

[LiveFreeAndRoam Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LiveFreeAndRoam]

There is some more info on this topic here.

If/When the national standards get adopted, the 265/70 profile will become legal. In QLD, I was told that it is supposed to be adopted around June, i.e. this month. I'm thinking I'll chase it up in July/August timeframe, though if someone else makes the inquiry sooner, please post your findings.

Cheers,
LFaR.

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Way2go, I'm no mechanic "" I just walked into the tyre shop and asked for some mud tyres to be fitted up to my rims to SUIT MY PRADO, they fitted them and I drove off """ There the professionals thats why I payed them, so they have a duty of care to provide a tyre that suits legal requirements.. Not like I walked in there and asked for the biggest tyres possiblle to be fitted to my rims, I just asked for some muddies to replace my road tyres.......this is a hypothetical comment...........I havnt got any yet, but every prado I have looked at with BFG's A/T's or muddies or coopers, what ever the brand have been 70 profile, so yes technically there all illegal. I understand exactly what your saying thats for sure. Just out of curiousity what profile and brand of tyre are you running ?? Regards Steve

[Way2go Member Find all posts View Profile Close Way2go]

Just out of curiousity what profile and brand of tyre are you running ??

I've got Yokohama GO12 ATs, running 275/65R17 - which gave me about a 12-13mm diameter increase (within the current limitations). I wanted Mickey Thompson ATZ 4 ribs (having loved the MTZs on my previous 80 series), but only being available in the 265/70R17 size I couldn't justify it (I know no-one claims to have ever been pulled up over their tyre size when it has mattered - but I'd bet that I would be the first!).

The 265/70R17 size will become legal if the NCOP is adopted without change, but only if you do not have a 2" lift as well........

[mickmac_42 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mickmac_42]

Damien,

This may seem obvious, but rather than asking a bunch of unqualified people a question which requires qualification, perhaps you could try going to your local Department of Transport and asking one of the vehicle inspectors there. You could go one better and seek written clarification, so that if in future you get pinged by a traffic nazi, you can offer the magistrate something with more substance than "I read it on the internet."

Similarly, your insurance company should also be able to provide guidance on what modifications they will cover.


Mike

[Peterpilot Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Peterpilot]

I've got Yokohama GO12 ATs, running 275/65R17 - which gave me about a 12-13mm diameter increase (within the current limitations). I wanted Mickey Thompson ATZ 4 ribs (having loved the MTZs on my previous 80 series), but only being available in the 265/70R17 size I couldn't justify it (I know no-one claims to have ever been pulled up over their tyre size when it has mattered - but I'd bet that I would be the first!).

The 265/70R17 size will become legal if the NCOP is adopted without change, but only if you do not have a 2" lift as well........

There's the rub, while NCOP is an improvement if it ever is adopted, lifting a vehicle by 50mm in order to fit larger tyres is not allowed without engineering certification:
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa..._2011%20v3.pdf
In fact to run 265/70/17 tyres, NCOP limits you to about a 35mm lift...

[Justo77 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Justo77]

Similarly, your insurance company should also be able to provide guidance on what modifications they will cover.


Mike

You need to be careful with asking insurance companies about what they will cover. As an example, I enquired with Just Car Insurance a few years ago about putting some 18" wheels on my VY Commodore, they said I can put anything up to a 20" wheel on it. What you do need to watch is that as others have said, the fine print. In my example I could only legally go to a 17", it would be up to me to ensure that my car was legal. ie: if I put 18" wheels on it I would need to have an engineers cert and then they would cover me.

This is just my experience, there may be companies out there that are a bit more forthcoming with information.

[JoshF Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close JoshF]

I would completely ignore information based on people not based in QLD and reference to anything from outside of Queensland and it has no compliance against local/state laws...QLD is still special and unique.

TMR has a guide on their website as to what you can do and available to call with questions. For an insurance company it requires you to be legal not just itemised.

[Damienandwendy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damienandwendy]

Hi Mick,

The main reason for posting on these forums was because someone else may have already done it and found out the correct info, without me having to re-invent the wheel. I had looked at most of the relevant federal and state documents that I could get my hands on, but that seemed to contradict what most people were doing. Hence my question.

cheers

Damien

[Damienandwendy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damienandwendy]

BUT any vehicle with AIRBAGS are not allowed a body lift

Hi Steve,
Is this just a state thing as I haven't seen any reference to it in anything I have read. As I went for a standard tyre size replacement, a 2" lift is my only "legal" option left, but if there is something out there to say you can't on all new cars then this would be good to know.

cheers

Damien

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Hi Damien, currently you are allowed a 2 inch suspension lift without needing engineers certificate, You can run a bigger tyre as long as the rolling diameter is no more then 15mm over standard or again an engineer report is required. If you have airbags, as in driver (steering wheel) and/or passenger airbag you cannot do a body lift full stop and I believe this Aussi wide not just a state thing. I was told this with my old prado as I wanted to do body lift but RTA said noway due to airbags. I will see if I can find it on the RTA website and post it on here. If you dont have airbags then you can do both a body lift 2 inch and 2 inch suspension lift without requiring an engineers report, even NRMA will allow this as they follow the RTA guidlines. Regards Steve