Costs of 4WD Ownership and Safety

[Chippy Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chippy]

G'day all ....

I don't know about you but some of the writings from the anti-4x4 brigade really give me the irits. You read the analysis of Govt stats by Vic Widman and John Cadogan in the 4WD mags ... and then get a very different spin on the stats by some of these 'foam-at-the-mouth', 'lets-interfere-in-everbody-else's-lives-'cause-we-haven't-got-one' types and it beggars belief what crap people can accept as fact.

A couple of articles I read recently are ... http://users.tpg.com.au/users/mpaine/4wd.html ... and ... http://www.smokinghat.com.au/bush/anti4wd.htm

I'd be interested to hear your comments. I know we are a like minded group in that we all own Prados ... but I also believe that we (as a group) are also capable of an intelligent and educated debate.

It may also generate some really useful comebacks when you're at a party and some real eco-frenzied whack-job attacks you for owning a fourby.

Mods ... I did have a look for an existing topic and didn't find one. If this thread needs to move .... feel free.

Cheers
Chippy

[mototrim Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mototrim]

Im looking forward to some of the replys on this one
I need to read more of the articles first but to start with the guys got the right name anyway PAINE. :roll:

[HGMonaro Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close HGMonaro]

just shows you that you can write anything and make it sound the 'truth'

Doesn't it go something like 'your view, my view and then there's the truth"

At least the 2nd guy backs his arguement up with some checkable data. I could argue nearly every point in the 1st guys splurb as they are mostly personal views.

Having said that... I don't own a Prado for safety reasons as such (although towing our wind-up camper is safer behind a decent sized vehicle). It's all about lifestyle.

Cheers, Nige

[whiteman Member Find all posts View Profile Close whiteman]

My Prado uses twice as much fuel as my Hyundai sedan but servicing at dealers is quite close. Tyres are triple the cost but they go 30% further on the Prado. Resale on the Prado is way better as a % of initial cost.

Safety? If I get hit by a truck in the Hyundai all occupants will die. The Prado will have a chance.

The Hyundai will not pull my boat and is not used when we have heavy rain or there is water lying around and it has hit one roo and come off very poorly - and doesn't go offroad. The Prado will do evrything I want it to do and a whole lot more.

I used to have a Prado when I lived in Sydney and it was overkill but fuel was a lot less then and global warming was not on anyone's radar.

[leachy_9 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close leachy_9]

While I own a Prado, my primary form of transport during the week is a bicycle. All of the the arguments against 4WDs could be made by cyclists against any car. Hell, from some pedestrians point of view bicycles are far to dangerous and should be removed from the shared paths!
These people need to find a life for themselves and stop trying to regulate others.

Leachy

[jeff s Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close jeff s]

Mr Paine is one eyed, thats for sure.

Not a safety issue but adding to whitemans post.

I think it was Motor magazine, Petrol Prado was as fuel efficient as a commodore, and actually took up less space, it something like 5mm shorter and thinner. But thats just petrol prado, not 4x4's in general.

recent accident over here near Collie, 4X4 v VW golf. 2 dead and 2 hospitalized in golf, 1 injured in 4X4.

I think everyone would agree that 4X4 in general are safer for its occupants in the majority of vehicle to vehicle accidents. But more prone to roll overs.

I ride a road bike to work everyday, What appears to be the most accepted as the most dangerous form of transport. I think its more to do with looking out constantly for everyone around you that keeps you and yours safe, what ever form of transport, plus im not distracted by mobile phones, radio stations, or MP3's. But I did get to watch a little "finding Nemo" following a 4B with rear seat DVD the other day...

Got a bit off track, sorry chippy.

[mototrim Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mototrim]

Some people have a natural abillity to flow endless amounts of verbal diarrhoea on any subject and this chap is no exception.
The discussion and arguments could be endless but in my opinion this is pure jealousy,that we have a life style and they dont.
If you dont like 4wd`s dont buy one and be assured if you dont want to be hurt dont jump out in front of one.
If these people feel so eager to save the enviroment and make the planet safer im sure they can turn there attention to some worthwhile causes that need a lot more publicity than 4wd`s

My 2 cents

[Rainman Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Rainman]

This article makes for an interesting read as well

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/edito...asp?NewsID=188

[ChrisCrowie Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ChrisCrowie]

Not really sure how this will fit into the agrument, but is my 2 cents worth.

I see that 4WD's are a lot safer than other road users. For one, we know that our cars have a high centre of gavity and are prone to roll over more, therefore we take it easier around the bends.

But the main thing that I see everyday is when it comes to overtaking or going past obstacles. The amount of time I see people in their little excels and mirage's and lancers that cannot get past a bicycle rider or a bus without having to quickly swerve into the next lane (dangerous) or slam on their brakes (even more dangerous)... I don't know what their deal is. Being a 4WD owner I know the dimesions of my car and know what it will fit into and wont, I know this because I have to know it when I am out on a track.

This I believe makes me a safer driver in the city cause I don't have to swerve to miss an obstacle and cut in front of somebody else or slam on the breaks cause I am not quite sure my little tiny car will make it past the bus!!!!

If every driver took the time to know the dimensions of their car, how it brakes, how it handles a situation (which we as 4WD's do cause we need to know so we can handle the terrian in front of us) then I believe there would a lot less accidents on the road.

Point in example. Driving to work today had a Swift in front of me, Bus pulled over to pick up passengers, Swift, fearing they were not going to fit between bus and lane suddenly swerved out into other lane and car in that lane had to slam on breaks... not me though, knowing the dimesions of the car I didn't even have to break to get past it with enough room to not even go into the other lane. It just comes down to the fact of knowing your car in detail.

I think we are also better drives cause we scan the conditions ahead (again, due to the fact that when you are out 4WD'ing you need to be looking ahead at the track to figure out your next move). Most idiots on the road hardly even concentrate on the car in front of them. Me, I look about 4 or 5 cars in front all the time and assess and reasses the situation continuously (granted it helps we are up higher) however I do the same in my partners Carolla.

Getting off the beaten track assists with everyday driving as you learn skills that are essential on a track, but can be applied to city driving quite effectively and give you the advantage over everybody else.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Grandeman Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Grandeman]

Don't you just love it when the communists come out to play... :evil:

I start to get agitated when I read so much uninformed drivel... "4WD's are the cause of the world's problems"... blah blah blah... :roll: :roll:

Did you know that Adolf Hitler actually invented the bullbar? That's how evil a device they are. :shock:

A little known fact is that JFK was actually killed by an errant fourby with a bullbar... :shock: :shock:

If you don't like 'em, don't buy them - no-one in Australia is forced to buy a 4WD.

Until they are made illegal, I'll keep driving mine. And I will pay the necessary regard to those who tell me what they think I should be driving, which ice cream I should be eating, or, what I should be saying or thinking.

For most trips, I am carrying (at least) 6 people - I will bet against any Prius, or the like, that my emissions on a per-capita basis are no worse than theirs.

So there!! As it turns out, I am not an environmental Charles Manson - I am just an ordinary bloke (who happens to be driving an extraordinary car )

[Damien Parker Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damien Parker]

IMO at the moment and i haven't had the opportunity to read the articles yet so i will don my flame retardant suit but here goes.

It is simply far too easy to gain and hold a motor vehicle licence in this country. It is seen by many as a right and not the privilege that it is.

There is just simply not enough weight given to the responsibility of being in control of a motor vehicle.

There is not enough driver training and education being carried out unless one seeks out further training. I mean you can get you licence without even knowing how a car will react as it aquaplanes... :shock: I know that as a young fella this really took me by surprise when it first happened as i was simply not informed of how to react to the situation.

As far as environmental issues are concerned cars are creating a hell of a lot less emissions than ever before and some of these so called Hybrid vehicles use a lot more fuel while in the engine powered cycle almost to a point where the electrical cycles efficiencies are severely negated.

My 2c thus far. More to follow

[MTpockets Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MTpockets]

I think there is an element of irrisponsble drivers out there no matter what they drive. I see the careless blokes in their 3 foot high Hilux's and so on, going from lane to lane all the time. I see the kids in their lowered turbo'd blow offs buzzing around and screaching tyres also.... all of the time. I see old people driving so slow its dangerous, and I see the guys running late in his company car talking on the mobile, speeding 20 klms over the limit. I could go on to include every type of driver out there in whatever vehicle they drive from pushbikes, motorbikes to cars and trucks. I think everyone can be put into 2 types, trying to be safe drivers with care and responsibility, or just too damn arrogant to even bother.

4wd's get the short end of the stick due to being a minority, who operate a off road vehicle in Urbanville. However if you go to a town like Roma, the small car is the minority there and would cop the same stuff as the city 4by driver does. Comes down to ignorance.

The worst thing about all this is motor bikes and small cars face the highest risk of injury and fatality in any group, yet they are the worst out of any group. They are the ones crying loudest in a lot of situations. The bikies who do the right thing are the ones who are more in the limelight as their main problem is cars dont look for them and basically run them off the road. I drive a large vehicle and actually look for bikes and small cars in the blind spot.

I could rant for ever over this but we need to continue being resposible so as not to tarnish ourselves even more than they do. Credability goes a long way.

my 2 cents worth. :wink:

[Grandeman Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Grandeman]

I could go on to include every type of driver out there in whatever vehicle they drive from pushbikes, motorbikes to cars and trucks.

Ban 'em all then!!

we need to continue being resposible so as not to tarnish ourselves even more than they do. Credability goes a long way.

You're quite right Les.

Many of us are aware that large fourbies with bars can seem intimidating to smaller cars and pedestrians. That is why I go out of my way to ease off and give way wherever possible, thereby not giving any reason for others to feel put-off by my vehicle's presence

[MTpockets Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MTpockets]

There is not enough driver training and education being carried out unless one seeks out further training. I mean you can get you licence without even knowing how a car will react as it aquaplanes... :shock: I know that as a young fella this really took me by surprise when it first happened as i was simply not informed of how to react to the situation.

Too true. I believe that once you get to high school it should be mandetory for all students to learn to drive properly. Start in year 8 with first half of the year theory, and secnd half touching on the practical.
By the end of high school, the kids getting their licence should be a far safer driver than I am. Put them on the skid pans, make them do all the stuff that police have to learn to drive a car fast and safe. Sure its gunna cost heaps, but how much value do the government put on our lives? Or do they enjoy seeing the road toll stats?
Think about it. Once we find education, we are almost there. 8)

[Damien Parker Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Damien Parker]

^^ Too True Les.

However i believe that in this instance while it should be in schools, it should not be funded by the government as that will just keep the current attitude that people will see a licence to be a right and not a privilege.

The more someone is forced to pay for something the more someone respects it and looks after it IMO.

I for one while not wanting to pay more than i do for things think that a more elaborate and more expensive driver education program will breed safer drivers. Add to wit (while i also dont want to do this but i think it would be for the greater good), there should be periodical practical licence testing carried out to ensure that our drivers are fully conversant with the rules of the road.