Knows his vehicles limitations or just a pure twit

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Chuck - I can't comment on your situation, but many hilux models tend to be floaters especially the ute well versions. They are a fair bit lighter in the front compared to the cruiser. But again, I don't know the situation, the person or the crossing to provide any worthwhile comment.

Lormickedloz - Perhaps you should check your facts ?

MTPockets - You plug your club on every post in your signature except this one ? You are a typical "4wd clubbie". As with most clubbies, perhaps it is your ego that's the problem ? By the way, your doing a great job promoting it !

Perhaps all the people who are so worried about the childs safety should get off their arse one weekend a month ago go as SEE and HELP kids who are in really trouble, i.e. just to start - the local shelter, soup kitchen or Salvo's. Instead they watch their current affairs programs, read any one of australia's tabloid magazines and get on here (or where ever) with NFI and bag out the judgement of a dad who has more knowledge, skill and experience than they will ever understand.

As with most online forums, the armchair experts are always right and defend their unexperienced skill and knowledge to other unexperienced member who would not know the better. The best way to spot them is they can NEVER answer a technical question correctly they always go back to primary school mentality - "no you're the problem", but they never really provide an answers with any detail to backup their claim.

You never get anything for free in this life, so if you want to learn how to use your 4wd correctly go to a Verifired Instructor and get lessons. In my opinion this is FAR more important than getting any accessory fitted to your vehicle to make it look like you know what you are talking about.

Club trainning ranges from club to club i.e. from good to poor. The problem with all clubs is that some members 'who have done their time' don't like being proved they are WRONG and their ego gets in the way.

Other people on here argue with experts in their profession and then want the experts to provide advice (for free) on how to fix the mess they have made for themselves - Unbelievable !!

As for me, I could not be bother wasting any more time here.

[Crammy Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Crammy]

Neiool you make it sound as though you're the worlds best four wheel driver and insult everyone else that has a different opinion to you. I'd hate to say it but I'm sure there's some guys replying to this thread that are just as experienced as yourself.

If you whinge about this forum all the time because all the "inaccuracies and inexperience" then why do you keep coming back? This forum is here to discuss problems, help out, learn etc etc not to force your opinions onto others and shoot them down because they don't agree with you.

Rant over :x

[joey Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close joey]

yeah well said crammy ... if Neiool is not happy here dont come back.

joey

:twisted:

[Fazza Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fazza]

Neiool,
I noticed one thing you missed on your 1000km check list (which was all good but irrelevant to the subject at hand) was the wading depth "WITH A FLOATING BOAT & WITH DIFFERENT CURRENT SPEEDS".
Something I doubt that many would seriously try. :twisted:
But then if you were some kind of stunt man with a death wish, Go for it. :roll:

Could not help myself,
All said tonge in cheek :wink:

Fazza

[MTpockets Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MTpockets]

MTPockets - You plug your club on every post in your signature except this one ? You are a typical "4wd clubbie". As with most clubbies, perhaps it is your ego that's the problem ? By the way, your doing a great job promoting it !
Thanks for reminding me, I clicked the wrong box
Yes I am a typical "clubbie" and proud of it indeed. I like to think that our club has a good level of experienced and not so eperiebced drivers. You only get experience if you go out there and have a go. As a club we are a responsible organisation of like minded mature people who foster safe driving practices. Our members learn to drive safely with a group or on their own. That is our responsibility as a club.
Perhaps all the people who are so worried about the childs safety should get off their arse one weekend a month ago go as SEE and HELP kids who are in really trouble, i.e. just to start - the local shelter, soup kitchen or Salvo's. Instead they watch their current affairs programs, read any one of australia's tabloid magazines and get on here (or where ever) with NFI and bag out the judgement of a dad who has more knowledge, skill and experience than they will ever understand.
I think you are clutching at straws here, when you have a family they are your responsibility, charities do a great job, but if you are in the position to help, dont talk about it, go help them.
As with most online forums, the armchair experts are always right and defend their unexperienced skill and knowledge to other unexperienced member who would not know the better. The best way to spot them is they can NEVER answer a technical question correctly they always go back to primary school mentality - "no you're the problem", but they never really provide an answers with any detail to backup their claim.
Ok, thats human nature, you get that on all forums :roll:

You never get anything for free in this life, so if you want to learn how to use your 4wd correctly go to a Verifired Instructor and get lessons. In my opinion this is FAR more important than getting any accessory fitted to your vehicle to make it look like you know what you are talking about.

Club trainning ranges from club to club i.e. from good to poor. The problem with all clubs is that some members 'who have done their time' don't like being proved they are WRONG and their ego gets in the way.
You sound like you have been the member of a few or more clubs in your time, I can see why you no longer belong to a club.

Other people on here argue with experts in their profession and then want the experts to provide advice (for free) on how to fix the mess they have made for themselves - Unbelievable !!
I hate arguing with experts, but only because they can type all the right words.... proove your experise?

As for me, I could not be bother wasting any more time here.

Thank you.

[StormyKnight Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close StormyKnight]

Re: Stormyknight - Perhaps I look at a vehicle differently to most, I want to know the limits of my vehicle I will be driving in a hazardous environment. The first thing I do with all my 4wds before the first 1000km service is to check the limits (that can be checked) on and off road.

This is just some of what I checked in that time:

- real clearances of diffs, gearbox and fuel tanks and know by sizing something up in the drivers seat whether the vehicle will be dog arsing-it along or it may terminally stop the vehicle as the terrain is beyond the ability of the clearance.
- approach-depart angles at headon (90 degrees) and on a diagonal
- strength/suitability of recovery jacking points and ease of access when required
- wading depth (suitable breathers installed) for still and moving water
- hang-up points - likely impact points (the nuts of the vehicle)
- roll over angles
- stall angle 1st, 2nd and reverse (blacktop and dirt/mud)
- ease of stall recovery
- maximum decent speed/revs before loss of steering/traction (fwd & reverse)
- emergency stopping distance in 1st Lo and ability/ease to recover the decent
- maximum articulation (and check body flex) before opposites lift and loss of forward momentum occurs
- speed and revs of 1st thru to 6th in Lo
- ABS operation on blacktop (in wet n dry) and dirt (including reverse and stall recovery)
- the feel of the vehicle - power sliding thru corners
- any unusual effects of applying the hand brake on the stopping line
- emergency stopping including straights, corners, half-half, and other surfaces like grass, gravel, mud and anything else I can find
- the angle at which the engine (without hand brake) can actually hold the vehicle (without a compression movement) in 1st H, 1st Lo and reverse
- guide point on the Bullbar/rear window where the line of travel will occur with both sides of wheels, double check this perceived line of travel with a high speed "as close as possible pass next to a traffic cone" without touching it.
- Blind spots and distance between blind spots and first touch of wheels
- maximum turning circles on/off road with and without centre diff locked
- problems replacing a tire on a dirt/uneven surface
- the process/tools required to bleed fuel lines, air cleaner, etc
- what it feels like in the drivers seat to drive over a house brick seperately at each wheel on a flat surface
- furthest point of visibility with low beam/hi beam on blacktop and dirt

I got to say, most of what you have listed is found out on the very first trip away in a new car. I went from a manual 60 series to an auto Prado...as you can imagine there is a bit of a difference between how both of these vehicles operate offroad. You learn by driving them in reallife situations, but you take it easy until you are confident in both your cars abilities & yours.

Theoretically it would be possible in a controlled situation to slowly increase the water depth & the flow rate & get a feel for how your vehicle behaves....but I doubt that this guy would have had the opportunity to drive his new 70 series thru that many floods of varying depths. It is possible I guess that he had an earlier model ute before & had done many crossings with that one & as such applied that learnt information to his new ute.

But, I wonder what would have happened if he bought a new station wagon instead?

The fact remains.......whilst the vehicle & driver may be capable, there is a lot of assumptions that the road surface is fine. We all know what ASSUME means. And also where is the backup plan?

You wouldn't go out on the river without a life jacket, why would you drive across a flooded one without one? (Backup Plan)

If it went pear shaped, the 70 series would be a distinct disadvantage. It would have sunk virtually immediately due to a lack of floatation!

The key here is the safety margin.....how close was he to exceeding that?

[plucker Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close plucker]

I believe what he should have done was reverse the boat down to the water and go fishing there - and be done with it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Online forums can suffer very greatly from what is happening here. I've seen it before. You may not agree with what is being said at all. You can voice your disagreements without attacking the person for their views though. Neiool is obviously someone who knows a great deal about a great many things. I don't agree with him that the crossing was a good idea. But I do respect his opinion that it may not have been the stupid act it appears. Just like I respect everyone else's opinion on the matter. A bit brash to label us all armchair critics, but back someone into a corner and what can you expect? I know nowhere near as much about 4WDing as many here and sometimes I might have to eat something I've said. Wouldn't be the first time....... Forums are all about collective knowledge, how much knowledge will we end up with if we attack something we don't like to hear? That said, we all need to be careful our posts aren't too hard hitting. It is very easy for such posts to be taken the wrong way.

I suppose I'm asking if we can take the edge off this discussion a little. Heck.... no harm in asking right??

Oh and errrr.... this post isn't meant to be me being high and mighty or anything......

[McBAIN Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close McBAIN]

Well said IRON-PAWW... i was going to add a comment here but think it's become a bit too heated!

[Dieselman Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dieselman]

I have driven a 75 ute through bonnet deep SLOW flowing water but I would not even attempt a crossing like this bloke has.

Thats my opinion anyway.

This is the first discussion I have read on this fine forum where people have been personally attacking each other - not something we need to see :cry: