New Laws for suspension upgrades

[MDS69 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDS69]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

I am sure if i went through the Rig Build Up section, more Prados then not would be modified to the point where they would be deemed illegal by VSI-50, is it not real practical on a Prado Forum now to be concerned?

How is that applicable to this thread. The new proposed laws aren't retrospective.

[MDS69 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close MDS69]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

Mate,

I guarantee he will will be a long time replying to that question....... a veeerrryyyy lllloooonnnngggg ttttiiimmmeeeee......

Holidays aye :wink:

[gphcald Member Find all posts View Profile Close gphcald]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

I would like to know how they determine the original height. my original springs were sagged so much, when i replaced them with TD 45mm lift the total lift wa 80mm back and 75 mm front, I only bought a 45mm lift.
Would like to see where they get their original measurements

Regards

Gerry

[Yota Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Yota]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

I am sure if i went through the Rig Build Up section, more Prados then not would be modified to the point where they would be deemed illegal by VSI-50, is it not real practical on a Prado Forum now to be concerned?

How is that applicable to this thread. The new proposed laws aren't retrospective.

I think his point is, we as prado drivers are not at the extreme end of the 4wd sector but are still efected.
How about when you upgrade your prado & can not bring it up to the same standard as the one you traded, or when the current suspension wears out & needs replacing. So keep you current prado for ever? What if some low life pinches it or it is writen off? I have been reading some other forums(something i dont do very often at all) and several posts by automotive engineers, leed me to belive these new rules will be very bad for our pass time.

have a read of the outerlimits forum, yes there are alot of highly modified trucks and some hot headed people on there, but read past that and you may see how much this will efect you.

Try & ring the RTA, your insurance company, or ask an engineer or even suspension supply, for advise on these new rules, no one knows what will hapen or what to do when these rules come in next saturday (1st Aug) after only 2 weeks notice.

Alot of forums do tend to get on the emotional side of this type of story & I am certinly not one to get to bothered by this type of thing, but these new rules WILL have a negative efect on ANYONE that wants to improve there suspension.

[Yota Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Yota]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

I would like to know how they determine the original height. my original springs were sagged so much, when i replaced them with TD 45mm lift the total lift wa 80mm back and 75 mm front, I only bought a 45mm lift.
Would like to see where they get their original measurements

Regards

Gerry

the original "trim height" is part of compliance testing before being sold in Australia, so a 45mm lift kit will be ok, unless you also want to go up a tyre size as well (10-12mm on average), then it will be illegal.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

As has been said earlier the suppliers will probably get a blanket approval for each vehicle and it will be business as usual except that the cost of the suspension will go up to cover the trouble and cost the suppliers have had to go through. I guess that all the States will fall into line eventually as well. I agree this legislation in NSW seems like a knee jerk reaction and I wonder what has prompted the sudden action. A spate of accidents with lifted 4x4s or lowered Rex's or 200Sx's? Don't know. What I do know is that the lifted suspension under my Prado rides better, keeps the wheels on the ground better and performs all round better than a standard Prado regardless of the fact that the centre of gravity is some 50+ mm higher than before. The traction control and stability control work as planned and I would much rather drive my Prado than a stocker.

Michael

[Yota Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Yota]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

Some interesting reading

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...-july-2009.pdf

Once lifted 1-50mm the vehicle will need to be engineered and inspected by the RTA (blue slip)

A blog from an automotive engineer
http://you-have-to-be-kidding.blogspot. ... lease.html

[gphcald Member Find all posts View Profile Close gphcald]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

No problems with that, however when i get pulled over by the boys in blue who have had a bad day, then how do i prove that my prado is still legal, surely they would need a central database to determine what is legal and what isn't.
Basically how does the boys in blue/RTA/registration certifiers access the info to determine legality, and how do we access it.
If i went off my original sagged suspension then it would be deemed illegal as it was lower than the accepted 50mm lowering, putting in the new suspension it is obviously higher than other prados with standard sagged suspension.

Regards

Gerry

I would like to know how they determine the original height. my original springs were sagged so much, when i replaced them with TD 45mm lift the total lift wa 80mm back and 75 mm front, I only bought a 45mm lift.
Would like to see where they get their original measurements

Regards

Gerry

the original "trim height" is part of compliance testing before being sold in Australia, so a 45mm lift kit will be ok, unless you also want to go up a tyre size as well (10-12mm on average), then it will be illegal.

[photoprado Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close photoprado]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

Basically how does the boys in blue/RTA/registration certifiers access the info to determine legality, and how do we access it.

Try here.

Michael

[jcas24 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close jcas24]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

I agree this legislation in NSW seems like a knee jerk reaction and I wonder what has prompted the sudden action.

I vaguely heard that there was an accident involving an excessive lifted vehicle, which was most likely an idiot of a p plater doing something stupid. So ban everyone from lifting there 4x4's and accuse them all of being 'hoons' I have no reference so take it with a grain of salt.

In the press release from the ministers office there were multiple references to lifted/lowered vehicles causing all sorts of mayhem on our roads, but no actual prove or refences.

The blog from Athol is a good read, and I reccomend everyone atleast reads this.

[hoppy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hoppy]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

This was posted on exploroz yesterday.

http://www.exploroz.com/Forum/Topic/709 ... x%3fpn%3d2

[05oiler Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 05oiler]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

4wd Action has created a form letter to send to your local member calling on them to take action on our behalf. I sent my letter off today. I think it is worth a try.

Regards

Garry

[PradoGXL08 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PradoGXL08]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

Hi All,

I got this sent to me from Caravanners and Motorhomes Newsletter:

CRITICAL INFORMATION!

ACT NOW - FIGHT UNFAIR CAR MODIFICATION RULES

Fellow RV enthusiasts,

Today is the day we must stand up for ourselves as RVers.

You have been branded “car hoons” by the NSW Minister for Roads.

I will not accept my fellow RVers, readers of Caravan & Motorhome magazine, being branded as car hoons simply because we choose to enjoy RVing in properly, safely modified 4WDs.

We, as responsible RVers have never needed each other’s support as much as we do today. It is time to act now or have our chosen lifestyle unfairly limited by regulations based on false information.


The news
We became aware on Thursday 16th July of a press release issued by the NSW Minister for Roads, Michael Daley describing severe restrictions to suspension lifts. So many of you have publicly displayed your opposition to this. We share your surprise and disapproval.

Vehicle Standards Information #50 (VSI 50) - please read the attached version of the new regulations here as they will affect every 4WDer, Caravan tourer, and performance car enthusiast.
Here’s what it means in a nutshell:

Any suspension modification up to and including 2 inches of lift, carried out after Saturday 1st August 2009 in NSW must be fully engineered or carry the manufacturer's approval. The total amount you are allowed to lift your vehicle from the ground is 50mm. That is it! This includes any combination of larger diameter tyres, bodylifts and suspension lifts. Any higher lift than this will only be eligible for conditional registration.

For example a vehicle with a 2 inch suspension lift and tyres even 1 inch larger in diameter will not be able to be registered for daily on road use.

Click here to download PDF from RTA website. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...-july-2009.pdf

Caravan & Motorhome strongly oppose this regulation.

Caravan & Motorhome is shocked at the rapid implementation of this regulation and very concerned that no one from the 4WD industry, nor engineering signatories, were consulted nor made aware of this move until its surprise release last week. This places question marks over the real motives behind the regulation and doesn’t even give the limited number of engineering signatories the time to approve the hundreds of suspension modifications made every week.

The team at Caravan & Motorhome understands, abides by and promotes the need to modify vehicles in accordance with sensible road regulations to ensure the safety of all road users.

However this new regulation is unfair on responsible road users and based on false information.

Caravan & Motorhome readers are enthusiasts who modify their vehicles responsibly for a wide variety of reasons. These include, family touring, weekend camping, towing, volunteer rescue and clean up operations, trade work and driver training to name a few.


VSI 50 affects everyone. Not just NSW based vehicle owners.

Please don’t think this regulation doesn’t affect you and your lifestyle.

Even if you don’t live in NSW, if this regulation is accepted in NSW, there is a good chance it may be adopted in other states. If this unjust regulation goes unopposed by you and me, it will open the door for many more restrictions to be placed on how we modify our vehicles. As drivers and taxpayers, it is time to show your opposition today! We will not have our rights as RVers trodden on anymore by an uninformed minority. We must band together, let your voice be heard now.

This approach to improving road safety is like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly. And it won’t show the desired improvement in road safety anyway. The real car hoons aren’t the people getting their suspension modified by professionals or using properly designed components. This is just punishing the responsible, law abiding road users.

The Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association (AAAA) in consultation with its members, have conducted extensive and appropriate testing using modified and standard vehicles. This test utilised professional drivers and the latest in data logging technology as used in top level motorsport to prove that a range of 4WDs with 2 inch suspension lift and 2 inch larger diameter tyres, handled as well and in some cases better than the standard vehicles. This is being presented to relevant road authorities as they attempt to get this approved as a new national standard as in a National Code of Practice (NCOP). I agree that this is a more reasonable outcome.

I propose we adopt the far more sensible NCOP approach which is based on fact and real test data using real vehicles. That is 2inch suspension lift with a further 1 inch increase in tyre diameter making a 3 inch increase in ground clearance before you need to seek engineering approval.

What is Caravan & Motorhome doing to fight this on your behalf?

Enough is enough. The team from Caravan & Motorhome are fighting for your rights as RVers by arranging to seek meetings with the RTA and the government and really need your help in writing to your local member.

Please print out the letter attached here http://www.candm.com.au/newsletter/2...ension_mp.html and add your name to the bottom before mailing it your local member of parliament today. Remember this takes effect 1st August 2009.


Sincerely,

Glenn Wright
Publisher
Caravan & Motorhome On Tour

We should also ensure our State Peak Bodies (in my Case 4WD Victoria) are aware of this as well and get them to take action as well.

Stuart

[LostDingo2 Find all posts View Profile Close LostDingo2]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

I am sure many of you are already aware but for those who are not...ARB sent a template out today as well.

Nothing to loose by getting on the bandwagon and sending a letter in.

Include here your local
MP’s title and mailing address.





Dear

Changes to Suspension Modification Regulations in NSW

I write to you as a very concerned 4WD owner.

On Thursday 16 July 2009 I received notification of a press release from The Hon Michael Daley, Minister for Roads, regarding new NSW regulations to restrict suspension lift modifications, Vehicle Standards Information (VSI) 50 – Raising and lowering vehicles. It would appear that under the guise of attempting to hamper modifications undertaken by 'car hoons', the NSW Government has outlined changes in regulations that will cause havoc for me as a driver on NSW roads with minor, currently legal suspension modifications. Many of the modifications outlined in the press release that will now require engineering approval, are legal in every other state in Australia, making this ‘NSW only’ scenario unworkable. I understand that suspension manufacturers, their industry associations or 4WD Clubs were not consulted regarding this radical change in policy direction.

Apparently under these tough new rules, car owners will be limited to raising or lowering their suspension by no more than 5 centimetres from August 1 2009, and all modifications would need engineering approval. The attempt at a populist anti hoon measure will not work and will actually affect responsible drivers.

It’s an absurd notion that introducing compulsory engineering inspections will in any way deter an illegal street racer to desist in their ambition for speed at the cost of safety. In my experience, the hoon community does not legally lower their vehicles – if you were to inspect these vehicles you would note that their preferred method of lowering the vehicle is to cut crudely the suspension springs or coils. This dangerous and illegal backyard practice is conducted outside of industry standards and government regulation. The now regulated NSW compulsory engineering inspection will only apply to those interested in observing the law and will not have an impact on backyard modifications.

Branding all people that modify their vehicles “car hoons” is totally unacceptable and ignores the many legitimate reasons for vehicle modification. The RTA has falsely assumed that raising or lowering suspension is only about the appearance of the vehicle and that only the ‘hoon’ community wants to undertake this modification. Sensible, law abiding drivers concerned about safety will alter the suspension for specific purposes. Raising the suspension height can increase the load bearing capacity and handling of a vehicle in towing situations. Similarly, some rural drivers require greater clearance to protect the undercarriage from both on and off road hazards.

There are currently thousands of vehicles on NSW roads with legally modified suspension. In our experience, drivers find that replacement of the suspension improves handling and produces a safer vehicle when cornering on Australian regional and rural roads. NSW roads are now full of imported vehicles just like every other state in Australia. We can no longer assume that these vehicles are in any way appropriate to our roads – we no longer have a car park full of Australian made Commodores and Falcons. Vehicles can invariably be configured inadequately for drivers needs so often responsible owners will seek to have the car modified to improve safety and handling. All of these ordinary, non hoon, responsible drivers will now be penalised for this knee jerk policy announcement based on false assumptions.
In particular I am concerned that the suspension industry and 4WD Clubs were not consulted. The timeline for implementation is less than 1 week away and yet we do not have any idea how the RTA intends to make this regulation workable when there are an insufficient number of signatory engineers to certify the hundreds of modifications completed each day. This VSI will cost jobs in NSW in manufacturing and the retail repair and service sector, and I would urge you to make representations to the Minister for Roads regarding the effect of this ill-conceived VSI on local companies and voters in your electorate.

This is an unreasonable decision based on false assumptions and not subject to any consultation. It’s clear that the Minister has received very poor advice on this issue and I strongly urge you to make representation to him and delay the introduction of this VSI until the RTA has conducted adequate consultation with the suspension industry and other key stakeholders.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

[Yota Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Yota]

Re: New Laws for suspension upgrades

looks like there's been a win

NSW MINISTER FOR ROADS
MICHAEL DALEY MP
NEWS RELEASE
MINISTER AGREES TO FURTHER CONSULTATION ON
CAR MODIFICATION LAWS
Wednesday 29 July 2009

Minister for Roads Michael Daley today met with representatives from the 4WD community and car industry who asked for the introduction of proposed vehicle modification rules to be delayed and for more time to consult.
Mr Daley said he agreed to put the rule changes on hold and that more consultation was needed following the meeting.
“I’ve listened to feedback from the industry and the community, and have agreed to set up a working party to look more closely at how we are going to address this road safety issue,” he said.

“All of those who attended today’s meeting agreed that safety is paramount and that unsafe modifications of vehicles do need be stamped out.
“The working group will include representatives from the NSW Centre for Road Safety, Four Wheel Drive NSW-ACT, Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association, the Australian 4WD Industry Council as well as other agencies and experts,” Mr Daley said.

Executive Director of Australian Automotive Aftermarket Association Stuart Charity said this was a terrific outcome.
“We’re passionate about road safety and we understand the intent of the regulation is to make the roads safer,” he said.
We’re looking forward to working towards a practical solution that meets road safety objectives while also taking industry views into account,” Mr Charity said.

Greg Redfern from Four Wheel Drive NSW-ACT also welcomed the outcome and said the working group would have their full support.
“We want to eliminate unsafe practices in the driving community and we’ll work with the government to make sure these new regulations meet those objectives without any adverse consequences for the motoring community at large,” he said.

“We all agree that there is no place for extreme and illegal modifications, but the clubs in our association follow a strict code of conduct and ethics, and we want to make sure they’re not punished,” Mr Redfern said.