Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

[middojnr Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close middojnr]

Re: Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

Well,

It all sounds like some people think it's all too hard. I am shelving the idea. I strongly suggest that anyone who organizes a day trip on the forum covers their arse's in the case of an incident off road. Make sure you don't drag the forum or it's members/management into any legal trouble and have a nice day.

Regards,

That is a shame, as Matt said, you need to be careful with trips as some idiot out their one day will want to go us if their is a incident!!

From a learned insurance perspective, however, this is not possible because you are like minded individuals
doing the same thing and going to the same place for a day of recreation. Because this is an internet forum solely for discussion, there is no liability issues for the forum or for anyone inviting other, like-minded individuals to join them, and for the attendees themselves. So long as the vehicle is registered and has at least third party property damage cover, any act of negligence is covered by the individuals insurance policy.

It would be just like a single four-wheel driver, sitting at a servo, gets approached by a stranger to say "hey, let's go 4wding. I'm know some great tracks" (although, I wouldn't necessarily go, I'd be too frightened I'd get my throat slit and my 4wd stolen, others may wish to go and have an absolute hoot.)

Mind you, I've done enough damage so I'm going to pull my head out of this one... (My father always says: If you're in a hole, STOP DIGGING).

[pomp Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pomp]

Re: Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

From a learned insurance perspective, however, this is not possible because you are like minded individuals
doing the same thing and going to the same place for a day of recreation. Because this is an internet forum solely for discussion, there is no liability issues for the forum or for anyone inviting other, like-minded individuals to join them, and for the attendees themselves. So long as the vehicle is registered and has at least third party property damage cover, any act of negligence is covered by the individuals insurance policy.

It would be just like a single four-wheel driver, sitting at a servo, gets approached by a stranger to say "hey, let's go 4wding. I'm know some great tracks" (although, I wouldn't necessarily go, I'd be too frightened I'd get my throat slit and my 4wd stolen, others may wish to go and have an absolute hoot.)

Mind you, I've done enough damage so I'm going to pull my head out of this one... (My father always says: If you're in a hole, STOP DIGGING).

Thats a nice post, this is exactly what I was thinking.

As far as the GTG goes thats an entirely different matter. The organisation/administration is obviously more involved than one of our day trips so we should expect too pay for those costs as a group.
As for paying for extra insurance for a day trip among friends, hmm seems a bit extreme.

If I were to organise a day trip via Facebook and someone did something stupid could they sue Facebook? After all this forum is basically a form of social networking for people who happen have a Prado isnt it?

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

So long as the vehicle is registered and has at least third party property damage cover, any act of negligence is covered by the individuals insurance policy.

Not quite... they only cover you in the event of a motor vehicle accident (Single or multiple vehicles) You have no protection for personal injury claims outside of this, for instance if a someone gets hurt during a recovery (driver or spectator), gets burnt around your campfire, gets food poisoning from your camp cooking, trips over your shovel etc etc or the million other random events that could happen.

If you plan a trip on an open forum like PP or any other for that matter in the eyes of the law you are an "organised group" and while the admin of the forum might be safe from a personal law suit the members of the group, either as a group or as individuals are not.


I don't understand how people are happy to pay to go to the GTG but not pay a club membership which includes the GTG. The costs are going to virtually on par and you get a whole year of trips covered plus whatever other bonuses we come up with.

It’s a simple equation... if the PP club goes ahead and you’re not interested then don’t join (But you’ll miss out on official trips and gatherings) As has been stated the free forum will remain for you.
If you are not interested then fair enough, say so and feel free to give your reasons... that’s the point of this thread, but there is no reason to be a wet blanked towards the idea for those of us who support the idea.

Also, no legal advice unless it’s based on hard fact thanks..... That goes for this thread or any other.

EDIT-(In blue)-


Mick

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

I'm as happy to pay a PP club membership as I am proud to wear the PPoint sticker on my 4wd. Hell, I would've even paid more just to have the sticker (thanks again TP :wink: )- but if a year's worth of coverage for trips and other 'specials' are included in the membership - then all the better. So long as the forum remains free - all's good.

As to paying to attend the PP GTG - I think everyone would accept making some contribution to off-set any reasonable administration costs. The 2009 PP GTG was fantastic, so I'd certainly be happy to make a contribution to go to the next to ensure it keeps its high standards of planning and organisation. And don't forget the prizes on top of this!!!

Anyway, I thought this is a bit of a dead argument. The poll is 80% in favour (59 for, 14 against). Where do I sign up?

[leachy_9 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close leachy_9]

Re: Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

I don't understand how people are happy to pay to go to the GTG but not pay a club membership. The costs are going to virtually on par and you get a whole year of trips covered plus whatever other bonuses we come up with.

For me the issue is not about money, it’s the risk of losing the current Pradopoint culture. I have no issue at all with paying for insurance in whatever form that happens to take. But what does concern me is all the BS that so often comes packaged with clubs.

Aside from the insurance issue I see no real advantage of becoming a club that is not already offered by the numerous 4WD clubs already in existence. If I thought there was a real benefit to being in a club I would have joined one already.

I'd like to hear the opinion of a lawyer in the field (any lawyer members out there?), and if they advised that there is a credible risk of litigation, then I would fully support taking whatever steps are required to protect us. If that happens to be becoming a club, then we will just have to work hard to suppress the BS and not lose the existing Pradopoint vibe.

Leachy

[zookcubr Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close zookcubr]

Re: Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

Im a member of a club in NSW and will be a new member of a club here in Alice Springs soon, so having to join a new club as such is just more money to spend. On the other hand, clubs are the best way to meet new folks that share the same interests. The way that I see it working the best if it goes ahead is to limit the forum to non-financial whilist giving all the benefits to financial members. This way your membership will grow as more people get involved on the site that want to get more out of the site. Althought there are always positives and negatives, AGMs where you have to vote for a committee. Will the committee be shared between the States and Territories or will it remain NSW domiant. What will say NT club members benefit from it (ie. shop discounts etc) compared to other States. Will in be more beneficial to form smaller clubs in each state and have the mother club ( pradopoint Australia club based in NSW). Should the name change? Maybe Prado Owners Club??

Zook.

[fishnut Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close fishnut]

Re: Pradopoint forum 4WD Club membership ?

That's exactly how I feel too Leachy.

I'd like to hear the opinion of a lawyer in the field (any lawyer members out there?)

I was about to ask the same. I think that legal advice is more important to Matt (or whoever else runs with it) than insurance advice at this stage. Even before looking into affiliations laws and corporations laws, we need to know what liability there is in the current PP setup. Having setup clubs with 'risky' activities in the past, I know - as soon as you mention about the 'club' concept - that's the advice you get.

From a learned insurance perspective, however, this is not possible because you are like minded individuals doing the same thing and going to the same place for a day of recreation. Because this is an internet forum solely for discussion, there is no liability issues for the forum or for anyone inviting other, like-minded individuals to join them, and for the attendees themselves.

To me this is the crux of the issue, but is it true from a learned legal perspective??? Is the forum legally considered solely for discussion? or does promoting a trip move it into another realm?

Even being insured might not cover everything - if a bunch of blokes use the PP PM service to organise a private trip (not official) - the fact that PP was the portal to organise the trip - could that put liability on the admin team?? I'm not even going to speculate on all the legal mumbo-jumbo because I'd be guessing.

Take responsibility for yourself and if you are the suing type and on PP - bugger off! if only it was that easy....

However, as most have pointed out - a majority support the idea of covering arses if that's what we have to do.