CARBON TAX: The truth, the lies and the humour

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

the carbon tax makes me sad.

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

The carbon tax is as much a joke as earth hour. Don't get me wrong I believe we need to clean up our act and we have been wanton polluters as a race but seriously there are worse things than CO2. THE tax will compensate those who cannot afford to pay it. OK but these are the ones who are in most likelihood driving 10+ year old cars and probably burning as much oil as petrol. They are unlikely to have modern energy efficient whitegoods or solar panels etc etc. I am not discriminating, I was there once but the fact remains there is no incentive to do anything new for any of us. Those of us stung with an increase in costs will just have to find a way to pay because being more energy savvy still isn’t going to be cost effective and you will get no benefit anyway. Petrol is exempt which is political expediency or perhaps political survival over common sense IF the government really believe what they are spruiking.
Let's look at this practically. To suggest that more money is to be spent on solar energy, wind/wave turbines and hot rocks is dumb. Solar electricity is generated pretty much across the middle of the day and cannot accommodate the morning and evening peaks when we all eat, wash and relax. Ok it can be used for heavy industry but only that industry that runs day shifts. So we need to store the energy. Batteries are not environmentally friendly at any point in their lifecycle; manufacture, operation or disposal. OK what about wind energy or wave turbines. Both better options but anyone who has spent any time near large capacity wind turbines knows about the noise pollution they create not to mention the sometimes fickle nature of nature. Wave or tide turbines stand a chance too but again the timing won’t always suit the load so we again have storage issues. And that environment is very harsh for what needs to be fairly sophisticated electronics. I know there will be plenty who suggest that hydro stations or gas fired power plants can pick up the difference but in Australia we can't have enough hydro and despite the incentives gas is NOT a renewable resource unless it is being created from waste. Hot rocks? Well there is a limit on the temperature and pressure that can be achieved and the efficiency of a steam turbine is all about the energy that can be crammed into the water. Modern thermal plant runs main steam conditions of 22MPa and 550C. Some plant push that to 600C (It’s my business). Good luck pumping that out of your well in the desert. Especially when you need something like 3,000 tonnes per hour of this steam to make 750MW. I am not anti any of these per se but they are not the solution. They go some way to helping. If we use solar etc for the peaking loads then we can build state of the art thermal plant (coal and gas) that gives us 45 ~ 65% efficiency and shut down the old old plant that is lucky to get 20% and should in all reality been mothballed 20 years ago. You know who you are! Note I haven’t mentioned the cost of generation in any of this. Coal fired power stations are by far the cheapest source of electricity and to bring the others into play the additional cost coal plant has to bear means a very significant increase in power costs. Try 10x or more.
I think we should be encouraging Northern NSW, Northern WA and Queensland to produce ethanol for use in petrol engines. Reduce our dependence on oil and get the money back into our economy. South America has done this so we can too and cost is no longer a huge disincentive. We should be investing in the technology that turns plant oils into biodiesel to better manage the concentration of nasties that are created in the current process. Petrol engines running on a high ethanol mix and diesel engines running on bio diesel. YAY!
Above all we should be planting trees by the millions to fill the gaps that we and our parents cut down to make more land available to satisfy our egos. Plant out as much as we can and compromise on the use of land instead of just raping it.
I try to do my bit. I am lucky enough that I can plant out nice new trees and I have about 350 hardwood saplings growing at the moment. I will plant another 200 next year and the year after than and so on. I only have tank water and I have my own bio cycle waste treatment for domestic use. I have solar panels and when my whitegoods or other consumer product dies I replace it with the most efficient unit I can find that will still do the job. Our holidays comprise of at least 2 weeks a year bush camping. Some of this is to minimise my costs and others are for our enjoyment but at the end of the day I want to look after as much as possible the lump of earth I live on. I am not a greenie I am just someone who wants to do his bit. I will have to pay for whatever impact this tax has. I don’t have a problem with the idea but I have a big problem with the execution.
And finishing up with my view on earth hour. Again a nice concept but totally misplaced. Power stations pretty much give away their electricity at night because demand is so low and the costs of shutting down most plant and refiring in the morning are many tens of thousands of $. Not to mention other longer term effects of running the plant on two shifts. So what does earth hour encourage? Everyone switch everything off for an hour during the off peak period. This is beyond dumb. Want to make a difference then let’s have Earth day. Fire the bbq for any cooking on a particular day. No air conditioning for the day. Use public transport or cycle or God forbid walk to work. If you have to drive then car pool. And so on. You know this can make a difference. Forcing a few coal fired power stations to shut down overnight and then hot start in the morning using 10,000L of diesel won’t work.
Rant over. Time for me to shut up.
Michael

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

I guess it's fair to say you feel a bit strongly about this issue mjrandom? :lol: :lol:

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

I guess it's fair to say you feel a bit strongly about this issue mjrandom? :lol: :lol:

not sure what there is to lol about but don't you?

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

OK I'll be srious for a minute.

Notice how it's no longer global warming but climate change!!
So is climate change real, YES IT IS, and it always has been real, ever since the world began.
Is climate change being affected by human behaviour? YES IT IS, it is affected by everything that happens on the planet.
Does a change in climate necessarily mean that things will be worse? NO IT DOESN'T, there will be winners and losers.
Is climate change the biggest issue facing the world? Not in my opinion!

What did we learn from the Global Financial Crisis..... Governments’ around the world poured Trillions of dollars (most of it borrowed) into economies because they had stopped growing. So we learned that growth is god, king, the single most important thing to keep the world as we know it functioning as we would like.

Lots of factors influence growth, population increase being one of the main factors. In 1960 the world population was approx 3 billion people, 50 years later in 2010 it was approx 7 billion! Continue that growth for the next 200 years and the world population will be nearing 195 billion people. Sorry to break the bad news to you but population growth is gunna get us long before climate change, and how we are going to reduce carbon pollution and maintain population growth is beyond me.

Mark my words, its not going to be a politician, or a scientist or a tree hugging lentil burger eating grenny that is going to solve the climate change problem. It can only be solved by an economist who can work out how we can have prosperity, without growth.

Just think if we actually started to have less people, we wouldn't need to build new suburbs, add extra lanes to roads, build more offices and car parks and the list goes on and on, then add you solar, wind and other renewable resources to the mix and we have it made. But as we learned from the GFC growth is god.

on a totally different subject, have you ever thought about the difference between a million and a billion? Particularly when the government starts talking about spending a billion on this and a couple of billion on that.
Think about it in seconds, how long is million seconds................ its about 11.5 days, now how long is a billion seconds.................. it's about 31.5 years! Puts a population of 195 billion into perspective doesn't it.

And he now steps down off his soapbox.

Cheers Andrew

[Auss15 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Auss15]

After millions of years of Earth climate changes,it's interesting that our Labor Government see's that now is the appropriate time to charge us for it. I wonder how they would have prevented the Ice Age or even saved the Dinosaurs.

[kav Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close kav]

all this hullaballoo about global warm ...whoops climate change . personally im all for it, bring it on . im sick of these cold winters . bring on the warmth . imagine how much money you'll save when us southerners no longer have to trek to bloody qld or the nt for a holiday . think of the savings . i live in one of the lowest points in sydney thereby im going to be one of the first to get a new waterfront, how good will that be, i bought cheap real estate and turned it into a waterfront . im going to council and waterways to apply for a pontoon and wharf out the front . happy days ill be able to fish for barramundi out the front of my house. it does have some drawbacks though i.e qlders coming down here in the holidays to stop their heads getting bbqed in summer, crocs in the best swimming spots , mind you we can shoot our own episodes of swamp people as the local pub is allready known as the swamp . by the time all this rolls around ill be able to travel to the booza in my 4000hp thermo-nuclear powered boat that runs on the smell of a hydrogen atom. how good will all this be . cmon people help me out here , burn more fuel ,turn on all your appliances , eat more cows, im eating as many of them as i can . whooooo ,hope that doesn't make me a greenie does it ?

[Matty80 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Matty80]

Hmmm, this is all very interesting... I'm sure!
Shall I try and keep this diesel guzzling baby afloat? With her 3,000,000 litre diesel & tanks? and the 6 big V16 twin turbo diesel rock crushers running?

EDIT: I have been corrected. We have x3 diesel tanks, each 3,000m cu. - So i apologise thats actually 9,000,000 litre diesel tanks!!!

Carbon tax sucks balls, and if i could write what i wanted about gillard then the language filter on this site will have failed. Australia is not turning out to be the country that I tell everyone out here at work it is... Time for a move me thinks, until there is a government change and all this bullsh!te disappears! i think the current government will only continue to dig its own grave and subsequently bury our great country with them!

[kav Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close kav]

we thinks alike

[Tezza222z Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tezza222z]

It would be interesting to know how many of the people who are anti Juliar and her carbon tax actualy voted for the labor party. Just wondering if everybody here is a liberal voter or a convert. I am interested to see if the political mood is shifting.
Pity that Tony is the only other option, if the Libs had a real contender for the job they would be in like Flynn (whoever he was).
On climate change... the warmer it gets the more sea water will evaporate and the more it will rain eventualy leading to global cooling and the growth of more plants and trees which in turn will store more carbon. It will also lead to more bikinis on beaches and shorter skirts. I can just see Julia in a bikini... now I feel sick!!!!!!

[kav Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close kav]

oh matty you had me at V16 twin turbo . but jesus tezza , way to bring down a mood. my eyes ,my eyes they burn .

[bilo33prado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bilo33prado]

Has Pradopoint lowered it's standards that much to have a Political thread? Politics and religion threads don't belong here IMO

[kav Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close kav]

it quite clearly states at the top of the thread what its about . like religion ,pornography, politics , bla blah blah , you don't have to take part if you don't want to . some of us are having a bit of fun to relieve ourselves from something that we can't just ignore or choose to turn off . i find it very theraputic.

[bilo33prado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bilo33prado]

dear julia i was born a redhead but thankfully i turned blonde at age 18 months . does this mean that i can still become a backstabbing ,fat -arsed no titted sleazy , bullshiting ex industrial lawyer come politician , with no agenda other than to line my pockets as fast as i can before australians wake up , in the name of the good of our country . oooh sorry is that off topic

Political threads...
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[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Political threads...
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Labor voters...
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