Woman killed by tow ball in failed snatch in WA... When will people learn!

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

The snatch strap should be the weakest link in the whole recovery process. Attaching to a towball or non-rated point will still result in a metallic missile should that part fail. Metal does not usually let go slowly. Remove the sand from around the tyres in the direction of the pull or snatch. Ensure the tyres are properly deflated. If you can't attach to the (rated) tow hitch or bar then use a bridle around the rear (or front) suspension mounts or axle housing and attach the strap to the bridle. In all my years of recoveries and training in 4WD I have never seen a strap fail. But I have witnessed unrated bolts and tie down points let go.

[LiveFreeAndRoam Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LiveFreeAndRoam]

This is what I was shown as correct procedure for a snatch - to minimise energy stored in a strap, 1st gear low for vehicle extracting and 2nd gear low for vehicle being extracted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPmu7fsqC6w

That's a good video and matches my training also. I realise the vid is not meant to be exhaustive nor replace training, but in the interest of safe recovering, it's worth mentioning a few points that were missed on the vid:

1. Clear around the wheels of the bogged vehicle, reducing the force when snatched
2. Recovered vehicle uses 1 beep to indicate they are ready, two beeps to stop
3. Recovery vehicle ought to simply floor it and keep it floored until they hear two beeps. Instinctively, many drivers will release the accelerator after the sudden tension, which usually results in a subsequent attempt. Basically, floor it and don't let up!

This is the first time I've seen any comment of having 3 x dampeners. I guess 3 may be better, though I believe one suffices. Or is this a new recommendation?

The other thing that was clearly wrong with the video, and barely rates mentioning here, is that it was a Patrol recovering a Landcruiser .

Safe recoveries to all!
LFaR.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

This is the first time I've seen any comment of having 3 x dampeners. I guess 3 may be better, though I believe one suffices. Or is this a new recommendation?

I have not heard of 3 but 2 are really needed, if you only use 1 then it would be in the middle, by the time it starts to do it's job the other end of the snatch strap is already back at the other vehicle.

The other thing that was clearly wrong with the video, and barely rates mentioning here, is that it was a Patrol recovering a Landcruiser .

Quite obviously this was during training, it is important to train nissan drivers how to be the one doing the recoveries rather than just being recovered, one day they might sell the nissan and buy a Toyota and this training will then become useful

Cheers Andrew

[the ferret Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close the ferret]

Hi guys, here is the regulation regarding snatch straps and their use.

In particular, regulation 9.

Trade Practices (Consumer Product Safety Standard) (Motor Vehicle Recovery Straps) Regulations 2010

or go to www.productsafety.gov.au and look under 'vehicle accessories'
Mandatory standard- Motor vehicle recovery straps.

Please take the time to read as much of this as you can, if you have a new snatch strap, it should carry regulation 9 and if you are a seller of the product and it doesn't comply with the new rules, there is a hefty fine and you could be sued for everything you own.
We must make as many people as possible aware of the danger of towball recoveries.

[tassie tiger Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close tassie tiger]

HI AJ

By fitting chains over or to the snatch strap aren't we just swapping one weight (towball) for another (chain)?

This may sound strange but I actually thought there was no 'real' danger from the strap even though it is going very fast. I thought it had something to do with the fact that energy contained within the strap is even over its entire length and is dissipated over its length as the fibres contract. Momentum is mass x velocity.

So if you attach it to a towball and the ball breaks then the mass of the towball doesnt change over its projectory and keeps travelling at the same speed mainly slowing due to gravity. However in the case of the strap its mass is even over the whole strap so it loses moment rapidly.

Wish I had paid attention in physics instead of chatting to the goth chick.

Is there a link to a strap on its own hurting someone in a vehicle in which case I will happily learn something and not regret the goth chick.

cheers

darren

ps I think I just remembered the analogy used to describe this. Say I have a woollen blanket that weighs 1kg. If I fired it at you say with a catapult and it was doing say 60km/h then even though it may hit you and weighs a kilo you wont get hurt because the mass is spread out over a large area and the fibres spread out releasing the momentum with each strand. Now if I was to get the blanket and roll it in a ball and tie it with twine and fire it it would hurt you because the mass is confined and cant release the momentum.

This is why IMO your better off forgetting the flash looking air brakes and just carry an old woollen blanket from vinnies. If you do snap the strap, or a winch cable, the fibres grab the woollen blanket and slow rapidly.

[the ferret Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close the ferret]

Sorry AJ, but I can't agree on the hanging chains weighing 5kg on the snatch strap.
I'd hate to wear one.
I feel that a tarp or blanket as a dampner is suitable.
Cheers Rod.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

You don't hang the chains on the strap, you tie them on using a prusset knot. TT the strap is not the dangerous part its what is attached to the end, given we all drive Prados lets use them a great example, almost all recovery points on the front of prados require the strap to be attached using a shackle, what happens if the recovery point breaks? The shackle still attached to the strap returns at 160km/hr +, this is why you need a dampner. As far as chains go I am only telling people what is currently recomended in the latest training manuals developed by the Four Wheel Drive Association of Australia, If you saw the video footage of the testing between tying a weight (chains) onto the strap compared to a blanket you may think differently. I know that tying a chain on seems counter intuitive but if you do it correctly then it works and works well.

In the case of the towball, dampners would have made little or no difference as the projectile in this case was not securely attached to the strap, dampners would have stopped the strap but the towball would still be lethal.

If you really dont want to use chains then use the ARB style dampner but add some weight to it, put half a shovel full of sand in the pocket, its the weight that does the job, ideally you would tie this to the strap as well to stop it moving.

Cheers Andrew

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

Prussic (Prusik) knot? How?

I like the idea of the bag with sand in it though. The strap will lose a lot of energy trying to accelerate the sand as it disperses. While I have heard some horror stories with inexperienced people using snatch straps the basic instructions that most come with don't provide sufficient information how to use the strap, or join straps or what precautions to take. I snatched a 120 out of a sand hole he made for himself a couple of years ago and after going through the whole beep horn when you are ready and beep twice when you are clear and then asking on lookers to clear off we had to abort the recovery once because someone wanted to watch the front of the car come out of the hole and decide to stand between the vehicles!

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Iv'e been down the shed working for a couple of hours and thinking about this thread, varying advise from different people here, IMO some really good, some not so good and some a bit of a worry really.

Anyway if your not sure about what to do I suggest don't believe any of us! I wouldn't want people tying chains to their snatch strap because some bloke they don't know said to on the internet. Go out and find someone that offers a 4WD recovery course that is nationally accredited and provides you with a nationally recognised certificate of completion, as opposed to some yob who dedsigned his own course and gives you a certicate of attendance, do the course and then you should be able to recover or be recovered safely.

Cheers Andrew

[beached Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close beached]

When has the idea of using chains on the strap come out ? I have done several 4wd courses through work over the past 10 years and never heard of this method. I have snatched plenty of people out with my personal 4wds and work troopys and have never had a problem as yet using the method I was taught. I make sure Im the one who attaches all shackles to recovery points and use as much caution as possible to ensure it all works accordingly.
It's a tragic example indeed of what we all seem to not think twice about......helping out a fellow 4wder .

[krypto Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close krypto]

Talking about the use of snatch straps an interesting photo about half way down this thread of several snatch straps connected together http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/gener...ns-pics-71215/

Not sure the ARB sand bags would do much to save the guy pushing the vehicle if things went wrong

[the ferret Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close the ferret]

Hi Guys, In the interest of safety and for the inexperienced, I thought I would post this link up.
It seems to me that in the light of the recent deaths by towballs, people are still buying these very deadly items.
If you happen to have bought one like this, please throw away the shackle so that you are not tempted to use it.
The seller has been notified and I would urge others to do the same.
regards Rod.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RECOVERY-...item27bcece022
This is what I'm talking about.
The equipment may be fine, but the ""TOWBALL SAFE "" shackle in my opinion is DEADLY and should never be used to hook a snatch strap to a towball.

[wooley Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close wooley]

Hi Guys, In the interest of safety and for the inexperienced, I thought I would post this link up.
It seems to me that in the light of the recent deaths by towballs, people are still buying these very deadly items.
If you happen to have bought one like this, please throw away the shackle so that you are not tempted to use it.
The seller has been notified and I would urge others to do the same.
regards Rod.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RECOVERY-...item27bcece022

listings been removed

edit, just a broken/incomplete link

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

A towball safe shackle, god help anyone who has bought one of these and uses it, surely there must be a law against this sort of crap.

Cheers Andrew

[the ferret Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close the ferret]

A towball safe shackle, god help anyone who has bought one of these and uses it, surely there must be a law against this sort of crap.

Cheers Andrew

Unsafe products can be reported to the ACCC on www.productsafety.gov.au via the 'Report an unsafe Product' link.
The more people who do, the better.
We need to make some noise over this product, it can even be recalled I am told.
Cheers Rod.