Learning to weld - where to start?

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Hi all. I'm keen to learn the dark art of welding various types of steel and I know there are many members on here with a heap of experience in this.

I want to try some basic stuff first and if I'm confident with the results it will open up a whole world of possibilities, when it comes to 4x4 mods.

First I need to know what kind of welder is easy to start out with, gives good welds and isn't too costly. Gasless MIG? Gas MIG? Stick welding? Oxy Acetylene?

Any tips from the pros? AJ120? Samo? Trekrider? I know you're out there reading this.

[D4Dforme Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4Dforme]

Mate a good starting out welder is a Lincoln 180C mig.....it can be either run with gas or gasless wire (fluxcore) you can buy a spoolgun for it so you can easily do light alloy work up to around 6mm........I have had mine for a few years and have done heaps of work with it.boats verandas staircases fences etc......The welder will set you back about 1k and the spoolgun off the net is around $250 delivered........
I stayed away from the chineses welders personally.......being a Boilermaker i wanted to stick to a reputable brand which i know i can get parts for locally and easily.

Welding is all about time on the tools.......practice practice practice...........get some scrap and plenty of it.........try down hand first get that nailed then try your out of position work.
Its not that hard you just need some patience and practice.

Dan

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Forget Oxy acetylene, expensive to rent bottles and limited use for welding, particularly on a 4wd.

Stick (arc) welders are cheap, simple to set up and versatile. A bit harder than Mig welding for out of position work. suitable for outdoor welding (wind) which other types are not so good at.

Mig, rental of gas bottle is expensive if you dont do much, gasless mig, not done much myself, didn't really like it but probably OK for a hobbyist. Mig welding is renowned for making good looking welds that have little strength in the hands of the inexperienced, make sure you do destruction tests on practice pieces to know you are getting good penetration.

Tig welding is also an option, gas bottle rental is again an issue, DC tigs for steel only are reasonably priced, AC/DC for aluminium are big bucks. Tig welding is harder to learn (still trying to learn myself) but once mastered a great option for making 4wd accessories. Its slow compared to other methods but can produce really strong great looking welds.

Practice is the key, practice practice practice, not a skill you can master in an hour or 2. Start out just welding on flat pieces of steel, then progress to joining steel, butt joints, lap joints etc. Make sure you cut through weld joints to inspect penetration and the break (or try) to break the weld to know you have a strong weld.

The cleaner the steel the better / easier to weld. Not critical for arc, more important for Mig and critical for Tig that things are clean.

Actually welding is only a small part of the operation, fit up is extremely important, 90% of a good weld happens before you start welding, welding up large gaps while possible doesn't make for a good weld.

I would recommend a tafe course if you have no background at all in welding.

Make sure you cover up when welding, ray burn is not nice, arc once again is not so bad, Mig much worse and Tig is giving of some serious rays.

So really it depends on how much you are willing to spend, how often you are likely to weld, and what you are going to weld. A 180amp Mig as suggested above is going to limit you to around 6mm material, 180 amp in stick will weld much thicker.

Cheers Andrew

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

If your welds look like this,



Keep practising.

If they look more like this,



You are getting the hang of it

Only one of the above pictures is my welding!

Cheers Andrew

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Thanks for the replies Dan and Andrew. MIG welding is very appealing but I'm not so keen on being limited to 6mm sheet metal. Would a MIG welder capable of ~10mm sheet/plate be excessive (read: expensive) for a hobbyist? Gasless MIG as opposed to gassed MIG would be my preference purely because of cost. Good tips re: safety Andrew. A tafe course would be good, but finding the time for it could be a challenge.

I always leaning towards gasless MIG or stick welding because of cost and simplicity. TIG looks a bit daunting for a beginner but arguably has the most potential.

I'm not really sure what I want to spend on welder and associated gear. $1k is getting a little high for me, considering I won't be doing anything serious for a while yet. Maybe something cheap and nasty to start out with for me to practice with and doing destructive tests on the welds. If I pick it up easy then possibilities are enormous and I'd be willing to spend more on a good welder.

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Those welds look like a work of art!! Simply stunning

[iantz Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close iantz]

I would definitely go with the stick welder first. I have an older ARC unit, but a friend recently bought a more modern inverter welder (much smaller than what I had). It welds a lot better than my older unit and they are cheap.

Something like this will get you started no problems.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Rossi...item20c66b768f

If you find your skills getting better and you want to move to alloy etc, then go purchase a mig. But if starting out for fun, like I said, can't beat arc welding IMHO.

[AJ120 Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close AJ120]

Welding more than 6mm thick and spending under 1k puts you fair and square in the Arc welder market. Unless you find a good second hand Mig. My previous Mig which died after 26 years was a 195 amp and was good up to 8mm, I have welded 12mm with it but I always worried about those welds, my new 270 amp WIA is a ripper for a bit bigger stuff, still have to watch the duty cycle if pushing it hard.

Cheers Andrew

[footoo Member Find all posts View Profile Close footoo]

As others have been saying, practice practice practice. I did a one night a week basic TAFE course which was a good intro to the basics. I also wanted to just do stick (arc) welding on the basis if I can do it at home I should be able to do it in the bush (and have done).
Had a cheap AC welder but just bought an inverter welder, the same as iantz suggested. For what I want it is excellent, I can even do acceptable welds and with stick welding you do get good heat penetration.

[BrettM Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrettM]

I would stay away from gas less mig as the welds look crap and you get a lot of splatter, as for welding 10mm plate just do a 2 runs instead of one. If you want strength I would go for a stick welder and use low hydrogen electrodes which you will need to store some where dry to keep moisture out. On the box of the electrodes it will give you a setting to put your welder on then it's just a matter of working out the speed to move at and just keep the arc length short, the angle of the electrode is important to. Look on you tube for some vids of welding as it might help a bit. Brett

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

My welder uses TIG. You should have a chat to him, you know him already Remind me tomorrow by SMS.

[Trekrider Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Trekrider]

Any tips from the pros? AJ120? Samo? Trekrider? I know you're out there reading this.

Good grief, don't include me with that illustrious crowd, I'm very much an amateur

I have a Cigweld Transmig 135 gas/gasless MIG but I have only ever used it gasless - don't use it enough to justify the gas cylinders (and wouldn't know how to use it).

I've tried getting on a TAFE course but can't find one for amateurs (other than an art course). Funny thing is, when I googled for hobby welding the local TAFE came up as offering a course but when you follow the link there's nothing there. I tried phoning them but didn't have any luck. My local steel supplier has offered to let me use scrap material and give me some tips if I take my welder in - not much point in using his welder as it's not what I would be using at home. Just need to get round to arranging it.

[D4Dforme Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close D4Dforme]

One course you could look into is doing the AS2980......it's for general structual steel and chassis welding........i did it about 15 years ago.......it can be done in about 2 weeks part time about 3hrs four nights a week fromm memory........I have also done the ASME welding cert aswell but it's more intesive than a hobbiest needs.

most of your around the house and vehicle mods like side steps and wheel carrier's arn't going to be too much of a challenge for a 180-200 amp machine........you won't be doing long runs needing big duty cycles........sure it's nice to have heaps up your sleeve but you can only do so much with single phase house power anyway.....it's just not practical buying big amp single phase machines IMO.

If your looking at buying a little inverter a word of advice is to stay away from the CIG weldskill stuff as i know of 3 170's that have had motherboard failure.......and they don't warrant the motherboard for some reason.

Using low hydrogen will give you better penetration but is also harder to master if only a novice welder so something like Satincraft 13's would be a good start

Whatever you do dont buy a little OZito or similar.........they will just frustrate thecrap out of you once you do get the hang of it!

Good luck and let the smell of burning flesh begin....

Dan

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Thanks everyone for the feedback Now I just need a approval from the finance minister for a welder and some scrap metal to practising.

I would definitely go with the stick welder first. ...

Something like this will get you started no problems.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Rossi...item20c66b768f

If you find your skills getting better and you want to move to alloy etc, then go purchase a mig. But if starting out for fun, like I said, can't beat arc welding IMHO.

Welding more than 6mm thick and spending under 1k puts you fair and square in the Arc welder market.

I guess stick welding is a safe place to start (cost wise) and I can always move up if the need arises.

... If you want strength I would go for a stick welder and use low hydrogen electrodes which you will need to store some where dry to keep moisture out.

Thanks for that Brett. I'll certainly pay attention to hydrogen content. How important is it to match the rod type with the type of steel? Is there any room to move or will the weld weak if the weld metal is a slightly different steel?

Have been trawling through YT looking for tips. Its certainly a wealth of information as long as I don't, unknowingly pick up someone else's back practices, but I guess that's where finding time for a TAFE course comes in.

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Good grief, don't include me with that illustrious crowd, I'm very much an amateur

LOL. I thought your rear bar looked great! Hardly the work of an amateur... to my eyes anyway.

Good luck and let the smell of burning flesh begin....

Dan

Lets hope that doesn't happen Thanks for the brand recommendations. I'd rather not start out with a dodgy unit.

My welder uses TIG. You should have a chat to him, you know him already Remind me tomorrow by SMS.

Will do. I did think about talking to him, but just as fixing other people's computers in my spare time is a chore, I figured I didn't want to pester him about welding in his spare time