4wd action issue 136

[Hutch Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hutch]

Just took a good look at this months 4wd action... 260 pages from cover too cover... here is some interesting numbers I complied :


:arrow: Out of 260 pages, 52.6% of pages have between 1/4 of the page and all of the page with advertisements present.

:arrow: Out of the 137 pages that have advertisements, 81.7% of those adverts are 100% full page advertisements.


After reading the magazine since issue 24, I guess I have the right to say that the advertisements are getting alittle out of hand :?: :?: :?:. I would like to see more stories and less advert bullshit...

I agree, i got mine friday and read it basically friday night and thought to myself that was the worst issue i have ever read?? nothing that grabbed me.

[MickL Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close MickL]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

I gave up on the "Australian" but printed off shore :roll: , 4wd Action Magazine some time ago...

I'll get the one that Joeys rig is in when it comes out and that's it.

4x4 Australia and Overlander are barely any better.....

Mick

[Chuck Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Chuck]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

Must agree I think there are all similar more ads and less stories.

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that's all I can guess is the issue

Yeah, but with all that extra advertising profit, you'd think they could at least still invest in some pretty good stories, trip reports, comparisons and product reviews, etc.

[FlyingBushPig Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close FlyingBushPig]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

Yep, it's been frustrating me for some time. There's more interesting stuff in the DVD's but even they're getting bad.
I actually dug out some old 4wd mags the other day - one issue from when Toyota brought out this brand new vehicle called the "Prado" (90series) They were actually interesting reads back then - still are.
I've got a friend who managed to get some from when most people were driving series 1 landrovers and landcruiser had hardly been invented - absolutely brilliant reading and had useful stuff in them - how to use a PTO winch for... what to use to fix a puncture when you don't have a repair kit - all the sort of stuff the mags would most likely get sued for these days
A lot of general engineering stuff and lots of well drawn diagrams on how stuff worked.
I'd be happy to pay a decent subscription if there was anything worth reading - unfortunately I waste my money on buying them from the newsagent in the hope there's something decent. Never is :x
Time to make our own I say :roll: :roll:

[Brendan Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Brendan]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

G'day guys, it's Brendan Seymour here, I'm the assistant editor at 4WD Action. Matt (pradogxlv6) sent me a PM directing to this thread so I figured I'd take the opportunity to respond.

As an editorial contributor to the magazine I have to say that in my perfect world there'd be 260 pages of editorial in each issue. However, that perfect world involves there being no costs at all associated with producing the magazine, so that goes out the window pretty quick! I'm not going to go into specifics, but when I was first shown exactly how little profit is made each issue when every overhead from staff wages to printing and delivery is taken into account I was amazed.

Ask anyone who has a hand in running a business and they'll tell you that in just about every area, the cost of doing business has increased markedly over the past couple of years especially. To cover those costs we can do one of two things; sell advertising or put up the cover price. Which one would you rather?

I'm looking back over my editorial lineups back to Issue 100, three years ago. The editorial page counts have, give or take a page or two, stayed consistant. Unfortunately advertising is a fact of life and wishing for an ad-free solution is akin to putting your head in the sand. Even SBS now has ads throughout its programming. On the way to work I passed buses, bus stops, billboards, trucks and just about everything else with a large flat surface, all covered with ads.

I challenge you, however, to find an advertisement within our magazine that isn't related somehow to buying, using or modifying a 4WD. We've taken a stand and always said no to advertisements for mobile phone ringtones and other sorts of crap, because that cheapens the magazine. Remember that just because you've already got a suspension kit or a set of tyres, doesn't mean that 10 other blokes out there do to. One of my hobbies outside of 4WDing is trail bike riding and when I buy a bike mag I read just about every ad, to see what's out there. I do it because I'm not as immersed in the bike scene as I am with 4WDing. I think if you cast your mind back to when you were first getting into going offroad, before you ever found PradoPoint, you'll remember you did the same.

What do you do when you're watching telly and the ads come on? Do you complain to the TV station and tell them you're never going to watch their channel again? Or do you just get up and use the time to go to the toilet or get a drink? No-one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read advertisements in 4WD Action. If you really don't like them, all you've got to do is turn the page. And for the record, any of us on the editorial side of the magazine (Editor Glenn included) have no say in how many ads are placed in the magazine. We've got an admin staff who know the exact costs of each magazine and how many ads are needed for it to stay viable.

MickL alluded to the fact that we can't call ourselves 'Australian' 4WD Action because we print offshore, so I'd like to give you a bit of background info there. Our two major competitors are owned by the two biggest media companies in Australia, News Limited and Fairfax. Both of them are able to print in Australia because they simply own their own printing companies here. To print in the scale we require, economically, means that we have to look offshore to produce our magazine. Express Publications (4WD Action) employes roughly 200 people and has never laid a single person off because of the global financial crisis. I think that's pretty Australian. Oh, and there's the 100% Australian content, too...

If anyone has any constructive criticism, including anything that they genuinely feel is lacking from our stories (and I don't just mean 'they're crap' responses), then I'm giving you the opportunity right now to have your opinion heard. For all the criticism that 4WD Action cops, I can truthfully say that I genuinely believe that we produce the best Australian 4WD magazine on the market. I want to keep it that way so I'm all ears.

Brendan

[WBY 1 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close WBY 1]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

G'day guys, it's Brendan Seymour here, I'm the assistant editor at 4WD Action. Matt (pradogxlv6) sent me a PM directing to this thread so I figured I'd take the opportunity to respond.

As an editorial contributor to the magazine I have to say that in my perfect world there'd be 260 pages of editorial in each issue. However, that perfect world involves there being no costs at all associated with producing the magazine, so that goes out the window pretty quick! I'm not going to go into specifics, but when I was first shown exactly how little profit is made each issue when every overhead from staff wages to printing and delivery is taken into account I was amazed.

Ask anyone who has a hand in running a business and they'll tell you that in just about every area, the cost of doing business has increased markedly over the past couple of years especially. To cover those costs we can do one of two things; sell advertising or put up the cover price. Which one would you rather?

I'm looking back over my editorial lineups back to Issue 100, three years ago. The editorial page counts have, give or take a page or two, stayed consistant. Unfortunately advertising is a fact of life and wishing for an ad-free solution is akin to putting your head in the sand. Even SBS now has ads throughout its programming. On the way to work I passed buses, bus stops, billboards, trucks and just about everything else with a large flat surface, all covered with ads.

I challenge you, however, to find an advertisement within our magazine that isn't related somehow to buying, using or modifying a 4WD. We've taken a stand and always said no to advertisements for mobile phone ringtones and other sorts of crap, because that cheapens the magazine. Remember that just because you've already got a suspension kit or a set of tyres, doesn't mean that 10 other blokes out there do to. One of my hobbies outside of 4WDing is trail bike riding and when I buy a bike mag I read just about every ad, to see what's out there. I do it because I'm not as immersed in the bike scene as I am with 4WDing. I think if you cast your mind back to when you were first getting into going offroad, before you ever found PradoPoint, you'll remember you did the same.

What do you do when you're watching telly and the ads come on? Do you complain to the TV station and tell them you're never going to watch their channel again? Or do you just get up and use the time to go to the toilet or get a drink? No-one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read advertisements in 4WD Action. If you really don't like them, all you've got to do is turn the page. And for the record, any of us on the editorial side of the magazine (Editor Glenn included) have no say in how many ads are placed in the magazine. We've got an admin staff who know the exact costs of each magazine and how many ads are needed for it to stay viable.

.
.
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Brendan

well said, and I would have thought this is pretty obvious to most readers even if you don't have a journalism/media background. 4wd Action isn't perfect but it could be a lot worse than 'too many ads'. There may be lots of ads but there have been quite a few that have sparked my interest by at the very least enlightening me with brand options for a particular item. Also, 4wd Action seem (to me) to be the mag that goes out bush more than the other 2, rather than a ' C'n'P ' of press releases.

To those that say there's nothing interesting in recent issues, maybe it's because you've read so many 4wd magazines for so long... just a thought.

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

Brendan,
Can I suggest that given your rationale for the number of adds, that at least 30% contain genuine specials to the readers for that month. It's ok to have new products promoted, but the generic ads from the big brands do nothing other than occupy space. I doubt that they actually contribute to awareness, given that most editorials mention and promote them enough.

Under the basic principles of marketing, I would ideally like to see adds and editorials that are "important in unique ways" and enhance one or more of the four "P's", you know what I mean.

Additionally, it would be nice to have mud maps inserted in the touring segments of the magazine and label each picture to inform us where the location is - cross referrenced on the mud map.

Cheers
Andy

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

Thanks for your response Brendan.

I guess the thread is simply offering some constructive feedback to you to consider from some of your keenness readers.

Everyone accepts the need for advertising and its role in magazines such as yours. The ads are helpful and I agree that they are not 'rubbish ads' about non-4wd orientated stuff. But many of the ads are repeat ads - the exact same every magazine. So what I guess we (some of your consumers) are saying that there could be a little better balance in favour of editorial content. I was a regular subscriber before but have since stopped with your 4wd magazine (and others) because of this perception. Now, I only purchase when the magazine has a particular article that I really want to read or use as a reference. Otherwise, I just browse in the newsagency (actually - you could almost read the entire magazine in this time if you exclude the ads) or don't even bother. Indeed, your online webpage probably provides sufficient content to bypass purchasing a copy at all and miss all the ads altogether! While I would much prefer to read a hardcopy rather than on-screen - I am not seeing the value for my money just at this time.

If you want to win me back - I would like to see more editorial content. Prado BB's comments about genuine subscriber specials also has merit - reward your customers and ask your advertisers to do the same. Make the subscription more valuable if you can. 8)

[hoppy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close hoppy]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

I must admit there have been a few times I have bought 4x4 mags just for the advertisments. When I was spending a bit of cash on my Prado the mags were the best place to find all the gear rather than searching the net.

Love the articles but I think the ads are almost as important for me.

[leachy_9 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close leachy_9]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

My issue with the magazine is not the amount or relevance of the advertising (i simply turn the page if i doesn't interest me) but rather the critical aprrasial of tests / comparisions and the detail of technical articals. While I appreciate the magazine caters to a very wide reader base, personally I find most of the articles are too generic and don't provide enough detail. It seems like the magazine has taken the approach of presenting content that is an easy, casual read for the average Joe at the expense of more detailed information.

Leachy

[FlyingBushPig Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close FlyingBushPig]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

Thanks Brendan for having the guts and care to reply here - it's not often forums actually receive responses from those people they really need it from :wink:

Personally I don't have much problem with the ads - I feel they're out of hand as mentioned and feel perhaps ad space should come at a slightly higher price to cut down on the number slightly. If you're truly the best 4WD mag in the country (which I do believe you are), companies will still pay to have their ad in.

Anyway, As mentioned I don't care too much about the ads and do enjoy looking at a lot of them however my gripe is with a general lack of what I consider useful day to day information in regards to 4WDing. I find the articles on places to visit beneficial and am currently cataloguing all those from my collection of 4WD mags. DIY service and mod stuff is useful but I do get a bit bored with the articles on people who just have so much cash that they buy the same cliche products we see time after time every issue. I am far more interested in the little ideas and clever ways people have got around a problem (search for the "little things" thread for a perfect example).

I find comparo's are generally well written and it seems the tests are carried out as best as possible.

My extra 2c worth

Thanks again.

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

I just received issue 136 (subscription) and reading through it now. I have noticed the use of mud maps and some photos are labled. Good stuff.

[Madkore Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Madkore]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

I too want to say thanks to Brendan for responding in this thread. It goes a long way to show how much the staff at 4WD Action care about their audience.

As a semi regular purchaser of 4WD Action, I find that they have found a number of other great ways to extend the value for money. These include providing 'old' issues when purchasing the current issue, as well as every second month supplying a DVD. I doubt you could find any other mag which does this regularly.

It's obviously a fine line between increasing the price of the mag or increasing the number of ads to cover the extra production cost virtually every business incurs over time, I think everyone can appreciate that. And I think once you break through that $10 barrier a number of people would turn away.

A few comments I want to make on replies which have been posted:
FlyingBushPig - I think 4WD Action do extremely well for giving DIY ideas, so I don't know where you are coming from. In fact, the last issue had 3 ideas which would take an hour each. Previous issues have included similar ideas, like the light underneath the bonnet for working in the dark, etc.
ntpryce - How do you read the mag in the shop when it is bound in plastic?

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: 4wd action issue 136

I too want to say thanks to Brendan for responding in this thread. It goes a long way to show how much the staff at 4WD Action care about their audience

Very true - and acknowledged.

ntpryce - How do you read the mag in the shop when it is bound in plastic?

There's normally always an unbound copy on the shelves. Sometimes - the only copies you can get are unbound... which is another reason why I won't buy it because clearly the special offers are missing or separated.