Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

[pearlie Member Find all posts View Profile Close pearlie]

Hello all,

I am compelled to write to the forum as a timely reminder for everyone about the need for knowledge and a top rate first aid kit with instructions for use.
Last night at work, I was treating a young child for suspected snake bite. He was not envenomated thankfully but what was blatantly obvious was that the parents, whilst having a top grade first aid kit, had not the foggiest notion of what to do in such an emergency. The parents of the child had never attended any first aid course, never had any experience with using a kit and the said kit did not include a first aid manual. I spent a large amount of time counselling the very stressed parents who have now assured me that they will learn basic first aid. They had a crash course in snake bite management and are now the proud owners of 2 x 6 inch stretchy bandages and the knowledge of how to apply them should the need arise again, heaven forbid....

I wonder how many PPers know what to do with snake bites? :?: :!:

We have come a long way since the ideas of cutting open the wound and sucking out the poison!! :shock:
First aid manuals (up to date ones) tell you to apply the bandages in a way that restricts the flow of venom, that is, if the foot has been bitten, bandage firmly from the bottom of the leg up and then down again. This, and keeping the person as still and calm as possible will thwart the flow of venom until you get help. Try not to elevate the limb either. Treat ALL bites as possible dangerous ones. It is far better to go to an emergency department and 'waste their time' than risk potentially lethal envenomation. I cannot stress this enough..

In general, just remember to use your common sense with first aid. If it is bleeding, stop it. If it is burnt, cool it. If it has been hit, stung, bitten or is broken, first aid manuals will cover most of the important steps in front line management.

I have only seen one PPer so far on the road, but I hope like hell that I never see one in an emergency room, not without primary first aid.

http://www.avru.org/compendium/biogs/A000065b.htm This is a web page detailing currrent snake bit treatment

[Prado887 Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado887]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

Thanks for the Warning Pearlie
You're right though Everyone travelling, esp in bush and remote areas should have at least a basic knowledge of Snake Bite treatment and first aid.In the last few weeks we have been finding some very large and aggressive brown snakes at work,(one we nicknamed "bernie" was close to 6ft and rather fat).I can only imagine the consequenses of people not knowing what to do if someone is bitten out in the bush let alone 15min from the nearest hospital.

[Madkore Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Madkore]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

Great idea pearlie!

I've done first aid courses in the past, but its one of those things that I don't use often (thankfully) - might be time for a refresher!

[IRON-PAWW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close IRON-PAWW]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

I know next to nothing about first aid as well. I think a course on decent first aid kits and how to actually use the contents effectively is sorely needed in my case. Come to think of it, we never even took a first aid kit of any note with us last time we went camping. I've thought often I need to do something about this but, stupidly, I never have, yet! I guess it's just one of those things many people don't think about until it's too late. A kit with good coloured pics of common poisonous spiders and snakes would be good as there's a damn lot of spiders out bush I've never seen before, and have no idea how dangerous they are. Got no idea how to deal with a broken leg etc other than to brace it with something and get the person to hospital ASAP. Got no idea what a person in shock looks like or how to help them either.

Not good is it. :?

[KybraBoss Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close KybraBoss]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

Excellent thread Pearlie,
this really highlights a big problem in the greater community in the lack of basic 1st aid knowledge, if a two day course means that you great to grow old with someone dear to you or a complete stranger gets to go home to their family, it's not a big ask...
Being involved in road accident rescue we see it time and again the actions of the first on scene, more often than not other travellers, has a direct effect on the life expectacy of the injured, simple stuff as keeping an airway open, steming blood loss or even just reassurance that rescue teams are on their way go along way to keeping the victims alive.
So carry a good 1st aid kit learn what is in it and how to use it, keep it full, St Johns have really good kits for 4x4s in either hard or soft cases and they can supply the training, in a lot of regional areas the ambos are all volunteers and the sale of courses and kits help keep their small sub stations open and operating.

[Black 120 GX Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Black 120 GX]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

Hi,

I have done a couple of first aid courses with St Johns> Seniors First Aid which covers the very basics but the general theme was stop bleeding and ring 000. The other course was Remote Area course, a much better course. It covers at the types of things that can go wrong when 4wding or in the bush. When I did it we arranged through the caving club I'm a member of, instructor was willing to custom the course to the type of things that can happen when caving in more detail.

[Prado BB Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Prado BB]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

Thanks pearlie

My wife just completed a first aid course and we now travel in comfort knowing at least one of us is proficient.

[Schaffer Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Schaffer]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

We did a trip over the Simpson a couple of months back and my wife who is really into first aid updated the kit and I believe did a course earlier in the year. I'm also down to do a course run by paramedics arranged by the 4wd course so hopefully it will be good.

[ozwapet2 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close ozwapet2]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

A course is essential - anyone going bush should do a Level 2 Remote Area one.

But I found there was sooooo much detail to remember, ( especially for an old bloke ) so I keep a good First aid Manual with our kit. The one I have is tab indexed and spiral bound so it's easy to find what you need quickly.

Also remember that many of the items in a First aid kit have an expiry date so you need to check through it every 6 months and before every big trip.

We also found that having everything jumbled together in a bag or toolbox makes it harder to find in a hurry. We have our stuff segregated into smaller bags inside ( eg bandages, creams, eyewash etc ) plus a "mini-kit" for the daypack when we go walking. Those toiletry bags you get from the airlines are ideal for this. The better kits these days have pockets for every item and they are labelled.

Oh and campers don't forget BurnAid - probably the most used thing in our kit.
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Now a little humour if I may so indulge. ( read this at the Flying Doctor base in Alice )

On the remote Outback stations they have large medical kits. Because the station people don't often don't have medical training, all the medicines are are given a number.
Therefore the doctor over the radio can ask them to self administer medicines based on diagnoses "Take a Number 6 twice a day" etc.
There was the story of one particular station owner who called in about his sick wife.
The doctor at Flying Doctor Base Alice diagnosed over the air, and told him to give her "1 tablet from bottle number 12" and call back in two hours.
The station owner duley called back and the doctor enquired as to the situation with his wife.
The station owner said "Well we were out of number 12 so I gave her a 7 and a 5 and she's right as rain now"

[fishfinder Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close fishfinder]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now a little humour if I may so indulge. ( read this at the Flying Doctor base in Alice )

On the remote Outback stations they have large medical kits. Because the station people don't often don't have medical training, all the medicines are are given a number.
Therefore the doctor over the radio can ask them to self administer medicines based on diagnoses "Take a Number 6 twice a day" etc.
There was the story of one particular station owner who called in about his sick wife.
The doctor at Flying Doctor Base Alice diagnosed over the air, and told him to give her "1 tablet from bottle number 12" and call back in two hours.
The station owner duley called back and the doctor enquired as to the situation with his wife.
The station owner said "Well we were out of number 12 so I gave here a 7 and a 5 and she's right as rain now"

This is gold I can just imagine someone radio's in with stomach pains and the doctor asks them to try a No. 3 :lol:

[pearlie Member Find all posts View Profile Close pearlie]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

This is gold I can just imagine someone radio's in with stomach pains and the doctor asks them to try a No. 3

I would have imagined with stomach pains you would be better off trying a No. 2
Had to get that one in, or out... Nurse's sense of humor and it IS early in the morning... Addicted to PP?? Not much!! I digress...

Good to know that this thread is prompting some people into action. There is no reason not to learn about first aid, and there are so many avenues to learn - even the internet! Having a good first aid kit and an up to date manual will get you out of most situations. Remembering to put it in the car, that's the hard part. Maybe not a bad idea to leave it in there, covered and out of the sun. Add the 2 six inch bandages as these will not usually be included in a standard kit.

Just another hint about snake bites, it is really useful to get a photo of the snake and the snake bite site if at all possible. Remember also that a snake is not deemed harmless just because it may be dead. The fangs and the venom contained in the snakes head can still be very dangerous. Please handle with care, if at all. A photo of the snake is invaluable in correctly identifying the culprit and getting the right treatment started. Most people carry a camera/mobile phone when travelling, so it shouldn't be too hard getting a picture as soon as possible after the bite. Of course, the priority is getting the bandages on, immobilizing the limb or area as much as possible and getting to help as quickly as possible but some fang puncture marks do fade quite quickly.

Actually, it is a good idea to take photos of any spiders, snakes and bitey things that cause injury needing treatment. Photographing the injuries causes by the critters will help emergency personel to make correct treatment choices based on evidence and symptoms.

Hope this hint has been helpful to everyone.
Cheers

[pearlie Member Find all posts View Profile Close pearlie]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

by IRON-PAWW on Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:00 am

I know next to nothing about first aid as well

Sorry to harp on about snake bite treatment, thought this is a handy reference. Even if you read it once, I will be happy... :lol:

How to apply pressure-immobilisation first aid to:
Bites to the lower limb:
1. Apply a broad pressure bandage over the bite site as soon as possible.
Crepe bandages are ideal, but any flexible material may be used. Clothing, towels etc may be torn into strips. Panty hose have been successfully used.
Do not take off clothing, as the movement of doing so will promote the movement of venom into the blood stream. Keep the bitten limb, and the patient, still.
Bandage upwards from the lower portion of the bitten limb. Even though a little venom may be squeezed upwards, the bandage will be more comfortable, and therefore can be left in place for longer if required.
2. The bandage should be as tight as you would apply to a sprained ankle.
3. Extend the bandage as high as possible up the limb.
4. Apply a splint to the leg. Any rigid object may be used as a splint. E.g. spade, piece of wood or tree branch, rolled up newspapers etc.
5. Bind it firmly to as much of the leg as possible.
Keep the patient still. Lie the patient down to prevent walking or moving around.

Bites to the hand or forearm:
Bandage as much of the arm as possible, starting at the fingers.
Use a splint to the elbow.
Use a sling to immobilise the arm.
Keep the patient still. Lie the patient down to prevent walking or moving around.

Bites to the trunk:
If possible apply firm pressure over the bitten area. Do no restrict chest movement. Keep the patient still.

Bites to the head or neck:
No first aid for bitten area. Keep the patient still.

For all bites listed above:
* Research stresses the importance of keeping the patient still. This includes all the limbs. Bring transport to the patient if possible.
* DO NOT cut or excise the bitten area.
* DO NOT apply an arterial tourniquet. (Arterial tourniquets, which cut off the circulation to the limb, are potentially dangerous, and are no longer recommended for any type of bite or sting in Australia.)
* DO NOT wash the bitten area. The type of snake involved may be identified by the detection of venom on the skin. If the snake can be safely killed, bring it to the hospital with the victim.
* Even if the bitten or stung person is ill when first seen, the application of pressure-immobilisation first aid may prevent further absorption of venom from the bite or sting site during transport to hospital.
* If the bandages and splint have been applied correctly, they will be comfortable and may be left on for several hours. They should not be taken off until the patient has reached medical care.
The treating doctor will decide when to remove the bandages. If a significant amount of venom has been injected, it may move into the bloodstream very quickly when the bandages are removed. They should be left in position until appropriate antivenom and resuscitation equipment have been assembled.
Bandages may be quickly reapplied if clinical deterioration occurs, and left on until antivenom therapy has been effective.
* Hospital Staff: Please note that first aid measures are usually removed soon after the patient is admitted. Do not leave on for hours.

[butane8 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close butane8]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

thanks pearlie for the timely reminder, have a first aid kit in the prado, me and the better half are
first aiders, but i will put our first aid book with the kit in the rig.... thanks again as we will be
better prepared for a emergency.... butane

[ntp Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close ntp]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

Three things I always carry in the Prado in case of an emergency medical situation:

1. Personal EPIRB
2. Quality First Aid Kit
3. Water (5-10L)

IMHO, everyone should learn First Aid and it should almost be a compulsory elective lesson as school.

Nothing worse than seeing people standing about frozen with panic not knowing what to do while watching their loved-one fighting for their life after a medical emergency. The first 20 minutes can after a medical emergency can mean the difference between life and death. No matter how good an ambulance or paramedic crew is, there's little they can do if the patient is already dead, has lost too much blood, or has suffered irrecoverable brain damage from loss of oxygen because no-one provided simple first aid (ie EAR/CPR, stopped bleeding and maintained the patient's airway).

[ozwapet2 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close ozwapet2]

Re: Must know stuff.. first aid and snake bites

Just another hint about snake bites, it is really useful to get a photo of the snake and the snake bite site if at all possible.
Cheers

Just one question, how do you get the snake to pose ?