NSW: Sunday July 17 Ben Bullen State Forest

[glen_ep Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close glen_ep]

Yeah good point Glenn, we were only saying that on the day about been one wheel drive, I still cant explain how when its pissing down rain for example and I give myn a gutfull off the mark how it doesnt spin ?? I dont run around with centre diff lock locked so what stops it from spinning on the spot ?? And its not due to lack of power, I thought that was the reason for AWD like the prado is suppose to be to give higher level of safety due to AWD. Is it the same set up as a Subaru, like the wrx's how do they get the power to the ground without wheel spinning if they work off the same principal ????????????

Subaru's AWD system is different to the Prados. In simplist terms;

- The Prado has 3 diffs (front/rear/center) which relies on your traditional cogs. Due to the design of diffs, power is initially split evenly, but will ultimately go to where there is least traction (center diff included). In the worst situation this means the center diff may send power only to the front, and the front diff may send power only to one wheel (right Declan?). However, if you lock the center, power is applied to the front and rear diffs at exactly 50/50, providing power to the very minimum of two wheels (one per diff).

- The Subaru has an electronically controlled clutch plate system in the center diff. By default, power is split up between front and rear at a ratio of 50%/50% for manual, or 90%/10% for auto. The computer will adjust the center clutch to provide more power in rear during heavy accerleration, or if you have heavy slipping on either axle, it'll increase the power to the axle which is not slipping.

In a way the Prado system is quite dumb, but when locked it will handle a lot more punishment than the Subaru's.

PS - I've had all 4 wheels spinning a few times (slippery conditions, up hill, high power).

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

I can't stand it when people (ARB promos) talk about lockers splitting torque equally. An open diff splits torque evenly but rotational speed is uneven. A locked diff will have equal rotational speed but uneven torque.

Re: Steve's Prado not spinning in the rain.

A single open diff can deliver twice the traction needed to spin the wheel with least traction before slip will occur. With two open diffs being driven by the outputs of another open diff as is the case with 90 series 4WD system the drive line can deliver 4 times the traction needed to spin the wheel with least traction before any slip with occur. So your donk prolly isn't dishing out enough torque off the line to cause wheel spin.

Observe how the torque is diced up by the 90 series drive line.

                                                              +--> Driver side wheel
                                                              |          |
                                      +--> Front prop shaft --+       [COLOR="red"]898.261MN[/COLOR]
        1st gear 2.804:1              |           |          /|
              |                       |       [COLOR="red"]417.796NM[/COLOR]     / +--> Passenger side wheel
              |                       |                    /             |
5VZ-FE --> Auto box --> Centre diff --+  Diff ratio 4.3:1-|           [COLOR="red"]898.261MN[/COLOR]
  |           |                       |                    \
[COLOR="red"]298NM[/COLOR]      [COLOR="red"]835.92NM[/COLOR]                   |                     \ +--> Driver side wheel
                                      |                      \|          |
                                      +--> Rear prop shaft ---+       [COLOR="red"]898.2614MN[/COLOR]
                                                  |           |        
                                              [COLOR="red"]417.796NM[/COLOR]       +--> Passenger side wheel
                                                                         |
                                                                      [COLOR="red"]898.261NM[/COLOR]

[Lyfe Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Lyfe]

Maybe a crazy monster patrol driver that told me!

Well, you know what they say - the atmosphere is pretty thin up there!

But the height does provide the perspective to say that a GU is probably a better purchase than a GQ!

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

Well, you know what they say - the atmosphere is pretty thin up there!

But the height does provide the perspective to say that a GU is probably a better purchase than a GQ!

I don't know. I've seen some pretty gnarly GQs with big lifts. Besides the GU has the exploding diesel engine

[Lyfe Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Lyfe]

I don't know. I've seen some pretty gnarly GQs with big lifts. Besides the GU has the exploding diesel engine

Allegedly exploding motor. Given that Nissan have sold more 3.0 than the 4.2 and 4.8 combined by a factor of 5 since the GU started in 1999 and every fourth 4x4 seems to be a Patrol in Australia, if they grenade like they are meant to, we'd all know someone with a dead Patrol, instead of everyone knowing someones mates father on some forum that had their neighbours Patrol blow up!

On an entirely seperate and completely unrelated note, anyone want to purchase a 3.0 Patrol so I can buy the 4.8?

The GQs can be pretty heavily played with - and the advantage of no airbag so can be body lifted and as Glen pointed out, cheaper means you dont mind cutting holes in it as much. But my GU logic says newer car, newer design (but still targeted at offroad use), new technologies, less kms, less abuse (people take less care of older cars), less bits wearing, nicer interior, less aging looks, car will last a few years longer.

However, looking at the prices of 4.2s, budget might be more of a factor than anything else

[williade Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close williade]

On an entirely seperate and completely unrelated note, anyone want to purchase a 3.0 Patrol so I can buy the 4.8?

I'm only messing with you Re: the grenade engine. Though I remember an article in 4WD action a few months back (Common Problems?) making the problem out to be something of a pandemic (pretty sure it said that the same thing about 120 D4D 3.0 diesels too)

Shouldn't you be driving a Defender? Being a pom and all

[Lyfe Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Lyfe]

I wouldnt believe everything you read in 4WD Action... I was in it, and if I remember, they called me a good bloke or something! Clearly an unreliable source!

I did come over desperately wanting a shorty Defender 90 with a big noisy V6/8 in it. But hens teeth and only 2.5 diesels if you could find one. Not to mention $$$. I was close to getting a new 110 for $46k, but then I realised I'd be too scared to take it offroad, so went for, what I thought was the cheaper, Patrol! *eyeroll*

[rags Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close rags]

Allegedly exploding motor. Given that Nissan have sold more 3.0 than the 4.2 and 4.8 combined by a factor of 5 since the GU started in 1999 and every fourth 4x4 seems to be a Patrol in Australia, if they grenade like they are meant to, we'd all know someone with a dead Patrol, instead of everyone knowing someones mates father on some forum that had their neighbours Patrol blow up!

On an entirely seperate and completely unrelated note, anyone want to purchase a 3.0 Patrol so I can buy the 4.8?

The GQs can be pretty heavily played with - and the advantage of no airbag so can be body lifted and as Glen pointed out, cheaper means you dont mind cutting holes in it as much. But my GU logic says newer car, newer design (but still targeted at offroad use), new technologies, less kms, less abuse (people take less care of older cars), less bits wearing, nicer interior, less aging looks, car will last a few years longer.

However, looking at the prices of 4.2s, budget might be more of a factor than anything else

I have only known 2 owners with 3lt GU s 1 a series 1 and the other a series 2 and guess what they have both had engine failures and 1 also a turbo failure before he sold for a 200series.I known 5 others with Gu s consisting of a 2.8lt ,4.5lt,4.8lt and 2 x 4.2 turbos and all have been fine .

[Lyfe Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close Lyfe]

I'm not really up for an internet bicker, but dont you think that the 100% failure rate in your story is a little excessive? Also, to clarify, your mate had his 3.0 grenade, be replaced, and then his turbo failed? Would have been nice if you'd included some actual facts - like what went wrong and what was replaced

I've had my waterpump fail due to bearings seizing due to mud in them. Also had three front bearings fail - heat and/or mud and/or mechanical stress. And my a/c compressor... that was fixed by Nissan, so their diagnostics could mean anything All of these count as engine failures, none of them as a grenading engine and, as much as I would love to blame Nissan and claim on warrentee, realistically is more environmental than design or manufacturing failure. Oh yeah, and a clutch on Stockton - my guess is previous owner driving style combined with my learning to drive on sand eariler and then normal clutch/sand wear on the actual day. Again... possibly, but unlikely Nissans fault.

Surprisingly, I've hung around a few Patrols in my time, roughly about 10-12 GU 3.0 and maybe 8-9 GU 4.2. Not a single 4.8 yet although According to your experience, I'm amazed that I've not see a single engine replacement - I must simply have a outstandingly luck group of friends!

[GH4wd Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close GH4wd]

Yes .....our trip to Ben Bullen ending up being a trip to Newnes State Forest & a great time was had by all...as usual

We must get out to Ben Bullen one day but instead of climbing the mountain, follow the Cox's River & cross over it somewhere....I have been through Gardiner's Gap years ago but can't remember it! Several tracks in the area to be explored....

[rags Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close rags]

Lyfe
I am also not into the internet bickering,but was just responding to a comment of yours.Yes i do know many patrol owners in fact i am only 1 of 2 prado owners amongst them.There are varying models GQ/GU with the different range of motors as stated but are only aware of the 2 / 3ltr owners who have had issues with there cars ,whether these are to be considered grenades or not is not for me,but 2 engine failures out of 2 = 100%.The 1st was a series 1 [i think] which had the motor replaced by nissan due to failure and then a few years later the turbo gave problems resulting on it being flat bedded from out birdesville way back to a nissan dealer in queensland maybe Goondi not quite sure of exact details but i could put you in touch with that owner,but he traded after that on a 200series which has also had an issue with the tailshaft.The second vehicle was approx 2003 model that only recently had issues resulting in a repair bill of $9-$10 k which included among other items a new fuel pump ,again not sure again if this would be considered a grenade but still it was a failure that resulted in a flat bed ride to Berrima diesel. As state previously all other motors have been fine except maybe a LPG issues on a 4.5lt model but thats not a nissan issue. I guess i compare that with my own experience of only ever owning 4wd 's [5] since i got my license in 1981 and my recent experience with the prados ,the 1st a 97 90series V6 that had absolutly no problems in 270km 13years ownership,that i still wonder why i sold it and was admired for its reliability and ability by some of the patrol owners and now although short time of 8mths a 120series diesel.Again i would like to say that the patrols are a great car especially 4.2 td but they don't suit my needs
cheers Russ

[GH4wd Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close GH4wd]

I can't stand it when people (ARB promos) talk about lockers splitting torque equally. An open diff splits torque evenly but rotational speed is uneven. A locked diff will have equal rotational speed but uneven torque.

Re: Steve's Prado not spinning in the rain.

A single open diff can deliver twice the traction needed to spin the wheel with least traction before slip will occur. With two open diffs being driven by the outputs of another open diff as is the case with 90 series 4WD system the drive line can deliver 4 times the traction needed to spin the wheel with least traction before any slip with occur. So your donk prolly isn't dishing out enough torque off the line to cause wheel spin.

Observe how the torque is diced up by the 90 series drive line.

                                                              +--> Driver side wheel
                                                              |          |
                                      +--> Front prop shaft --+       [COLOR="red"]898.261MN[/COLOR]
        1st gear 2.804:1              |           |          /|
              |                       |       [COLOR="red"]417.796NM[/COLOR]     / +--> Passenger side wheel
              |                       |                    /             |
5VZ-FE --> Auto box --> Centre diff --+  Diff ratio 4.3:1-|           [COLOR="red"]898.261MN[/COLOR]
  |           |                       |                    \
[COLOR="red"]298NM[/COLOR]      [COLOR="red"]835.92NM[/COLOR]                   |                     \ +--> Driver side wheel
                                      |                      \|          |
                                      +--> Rear prop shaft ---+       [COLOR="red"]898.2614MN[/COLOR]
                                                  |           |        
                                              [COLOR="red"]417.796NM[/COLOR]       +--> Passenger side wheel
                                                                         |
                                                                      [COLOR="red"]898.261NM[/COLOR]

well that says it all...plus you can see the effect in the video posted previously with your own eyes

..898nm of torque to one wheel..........you know how it feels Declan