Brake failure!!

[mjrandom Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close mjrandom]

I bought this dot3 / dot4 thing up a while ago...
I got shot down in flames suggesting dot4 wasnt the right fluid to be using...

Glad you got it sorted...

Can't recall... Apologies if I was one of the riflemen. I still can't see why DOT 4 is a problem but there you go.

[Ultra-VoX Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ultra-VoX]

The total cost was $125. Obviously not just for the flush and bleed, aslo for the extensive testing to try and source the issue.

If the fluid had affected the seals and fluid pressure was lost then it would fully explain the loss of brakes. It might be uncommon and I was just an unlucky one. Doesn't mean it will happen all the time if you use Dot 4, just raises the possibility.

As I said, a learning experience and one worth sharing here. Simply not worth the risk even if theres only the slightest chance it could have this affect.

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Been a VX it will have traction/stability/down hill assist which then becomes expensive as this is a completely different unit to just the normal booster with ABS. You want to prey its not the electronic unit as they are around 3grand to replace, this unit controls all the ABS/traction/stability/down hill assist. Its a big clear looking plastic square unit thats sits on drivers side where your normal brake fluid reservoir goes. If it has the correct fluid it in from Toyota it should be yellow ..........Cheers Steve M

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

It will look like this one been a vx

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

This is what the booster looks like without traction/stability....[IMG][/IMG]

[Guest Close Guest]

Can't recall... Apologies if I was one of the riflemen. I still can't see why DOT 4 is a problem but there you go.

It looks like this post and you were no where near it!
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...otors-are-best

[mackayvx Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mackayvx]

It looks like this post and you were no where near it!
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...otors-are-best

Haha. Yes that was the one!!!

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Been a VX it will have traction/stability/down hill assist which then becomes expensive as this is a completely different unit to just the normal booster with ABS. You want to prey its not the electronic unit as they are around 3grand to replace, this unit controls all the ABS/traction/stability/down hill assist. Its a big clear looking plastic square unit thats sits on drivers side where your normal brake fluid reservoir goes. If it has the correct fluid it in from Toyota it should be yellow ..........Cheers Steve M

Thats right Steve, This is why on post 2# I asked if it has the vacuum booster, just a simple question.
Because I believe there maybe some bad news to come later, sorry to say, prey could be the go.
But the fluid change/bleed could have sorted it.

Well that's a bargain from your Toyota dealer, for all that extensive testing and the fluid change $125, happiness hey.
So it had dot 4 in it for a while then? How long? Then it just played up later? Like it took Time to swell the seals?
But drop the dot 3 in and they went back to normal instantly..... Of corse....

Not trying to be smart, but I hope that's right, just beware, it might not be, with those systems your life is with the electronics and an air bubble.

[Bushbasher Out of control poster! Find all posts View Profile Close Bushbasher]

I don't know about oils ain't oils, but in this case brake fluids ain't brake fluids it would seem.

[AussieTDM Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close AussieTDM]

+1 I have had the experience of a TOYOTA Dealer servicing the auto on a fairly late Corolla and instead of Toyota T4 oil they used Dextron 3 and burnt the auto out in quick time- dealer had to stump up for another auto as the incorrect oil was noted on the invoice.

Rick

You must use the right specification everything for that vehicle. If your manual states the use of dot 3, well that's what you use. It's the same for everything. My advise is to not go out of specification.
I hope I am not making people feel stupid here when I say this, 'it's just not that hard'.
The owner has a responsibility to educate one's self in all of this as well. Don't go and think that Toyota Service doesn't make these sorts of mistakes either, because they do.
The Roo.

[AussieTDM Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close AussieTDM]

Tried to delete the double post sorry

[John Member Find all posts View Profile Close John]

Further to 'Roo's post: If Toyota was confident that DOT 4 was also suitable in the Prado brake system, wouldn't they write that in the service manuals?

As someone else wrote, the chemical composition of the two are different, and we don't know what substituting one for the other may do long or short term.

Most of the cars and bikes I've worked on over the past few years have used DOT4. (I have quite a bit of it in the garage). Both my daughter's and my car specify DOT3. I was about to do a fluid change recently on both our cars, and was just going to use the 4 I already had in stock. I did some research on the net, but couldn't find any info that conclusively said you could substitute either way.

So I and had to go out and find some DOT3 to do the job. Seems rare, as none of my usual sources keep it. I had to go to an independent parts retailer to find some.

Not suggesting that DOT4 is the cause of the failure referred to in this thread, but who knows? It may have been a factor...

[butane8 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close butane8]

I don't know about oils ain't oils, but in this case brake fluids ain't brake fluids it would seem.

t
i watch this site and maintain my 120 , as per , but the brake fluid i would buy from toyota, spare parts, and do it my self, after they told me what it was,,,,,,,?, but would pay the $$$ for the product to suit a 120, or at least my 120,

food for thought butane

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday ALL!
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I unlike most i find it hard to settle on one answer on the Dot3 - Dot4 debate so i will add a few points to stimulate thoughts as appose to acceptance! Lol
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I am neither a crowd follower/Crowd pleaser nor an acceptance of just being told so please read below and you decide! I took the time to research it so i hope you can take the time to read it!
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Both Dot3/ Dot 4 and Dot 5.1 are of "polyethylene glycol" and all fall within the minimum "Standard No. 116 & SEA - J1703 Motor vehicle brake fluids" and both are "Specifically" "Quoted" in the TOYOTA OWNERS MANUAL". Toyota Manual QUOTE: Fluid Type: SEA J1703 OR FMVSS No: 116 Dot3 Un-Quote.
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Dot3 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_3
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DOT4 From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOT_4
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Standard No. 116; Motor vehicle brake fluids
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regul...px?reg=571.116
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Product Code: J1703
http://standards.sae.org/j1703_201208/
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Borate esters used as lubricant additives
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...40404/abstract
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Brake Fluids Dot 3 & 4
http://www.epc.shell.com/Docs/GPCDOC...rake_Fluid.pdf
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Understanding Brake Fluid - RPMnet.com tech articles - by AFCO ...
http://www.afcoracing.com/tech_pages/fluid.shtml
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Now obviously if your vehicle is manufactured and specifies Dot4 you can in emergency (So to speak) Mix Dot3 but have to flush the system with fresh Dot4.
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WHY?.. Because Dot4 has a higher dry and wet boiling point than Dot3 so you would be inadvertently dropping the manufactured specified boiling point specs.
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If you was to put Dot4 into Dot3 then there would be no diverse downgrading/reaction as both are made of "polyethylene glycol" and you are not down grading the manufactured specified systems specs. (I personally would still re-flush as i personally don't like to mix one with the other but only like to run one of the same as appose to a mix).
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Note: Brake fluid levels will naturally drop as brake pad thickness wear thin and the calliper pistons expand outwards consuming more fluid volume.
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ALSO: It is "really" important to read this link below from begging to end (Please Do not power read as you might miss some valid points) as it has a story to tell!
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Note: "MC" = Master Cylinder.
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This Quote sticks out to me!.... "one seal out of many within a closed brake system has been effected..
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ih8mud forum
http://forum.ih8mud.com/100-series-c...mposition.html
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After reading the link above it also baffles me and not possible how you can loose your brakes with Dot4 then all comes good with just a re-flushing with Dot3??... If a seal swells or peels over it just don't revers its self back to normal??... Had the back seal on the Master Cylinder been replaced given that your Prado is a 2006 model?
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Brake RECALL 2006 = 14-08-2006
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...ke-RECALL-2006
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Maybe it wasn't bled properly from the beginning? ("Highly unlikely"?... If brakes wasn't bled properly at first it wouldn't work properly at first!).
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Hope what i have provided stimulates a healthy debate and not a sheep follow like thing!
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I guess i would have added some sort of relief for all those out there who have used Dot4!... Ill confess!... i did and am still running with it!
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ALSO: Just for the hell of it read the fine print on the "CASTROL" Dot4 brake fluid and read what it says.
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Castrol brake Fluid Dot4 Quote: Compatible with all conventional Dot3 & Dot4 polyglycol brake fluids Un-Quote.
Cheers