HARD to select 1st, 2nd, 3rd and reverse VERY HARD 1kz 5speed

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

2003 turbo diesel 5 speed.

Noticed since the clutch was replaced 2 months ago, gearbox has been a bit notchy at times, but not too bad.
Today it has become very hard to select, in particular, first and second, 3rd and reverse are hard also, not as bad.
Double clutching helps.
There are no leaks at clutch slave or master, plenty of fluid.
The clutch is disengaging there is good clearance, but it feels similar to when the clutch isn't disengaging fully.
There is a rumbley sound as u come to a stop in neutral, foot off clutch only.

Any help please?

[mackayvx Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mackayvx]

I hate to say it... but it sounds like your clutch plate hasnt been tourqed properly. who fitted it?

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

The first one was fitted in September 2011 by, Lillydale brake and clutch, it shuddered and sqeaked by October. - by the previous owner.

I spoke to Lillydale brake and clutch about it last year, put up with it for a while, then thought bugger it, took it back for warranty, then they denied it because of dust in there...so they did it again in May 2012, I WAS FORCED TO PAY, the shudder started pretty quick, only a little squeak.

By Lillydale brake and clutch, not exited about their work.
Its done 4,000klms..... They will not be working on this ever again!!!

Funniest part is, the shudder has been gone since I cant get it in gear today.......
Its at the point now that, its almost impossible to select first till you roll a little.........

How would not torquing cause this?....mmmmm.....
actually i think i can see where your coming from, but not that rumbly..... and it stops before the vehicle.
What would earlish symtoms of water in the gearbox oil be?
or perhaps the slave is playing up?
OR
maybe the spigot is binding spinning the input shaft.....?

Ok first port of call im going out to drain the gearbox oil.....
or did they and forget to refill it?

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

1st concern was did they drain the gearbox oil and forget to fill or top it up?
No, I just put the car on the hoist and drained the oil, the level was good, it looked clean draining.
However Im not sure if its because its dark and im shining a torch in the oil tray, but it looks horrible in there for only 10,000klms+
gearbox oil. seems very metallic......ohhhwwweeeyyuukkkeeee......
Will let it drain fully overnight, have a look and some new oil and nulon box treatment in the moring see what happens.....
Not good.... I might be learning about rebuiding gearboxes.........
So has anyone else came across a shagged 5 speed like this or is there some good news here?

[pete8205 Member Find all posts View Profile Close pete8205]

Hi #### I would contact the governing body in nsw its dept of fair trading dunno ifs its the same in vic. you should have a case to get some money back as they have been paid to fix it twice.
as for the fix check the oil and go from there some one on this forum should be able to recommend another mechanic to have a look or even better repair it.
good luck.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Hi #### I would contact the governing body in nsw its dept of fair trading dunno ifs its the same in vic. you should have a case to get some money back as they have been paid to fix it twice.
as for the fix check the oil and go from there some one on this forum should be able to recommend another mechanic to have a look or even better repair it.
good luck.

Hi Pete,
I am Focused on sorting out that issue also, it has been ongoing.
The only reason I went back there as discussed with them, it was warranty....???
They advised me, they would get the go-ahead before dismantling, however they striped it, sent it to Exedy who blamed dust.....
well for those that dont know its a 4x4, also the Bell housings are open they have big holes at the top for the dust, water and muddy water to splash in...... IMO dust doesnt cause clutches to fail in 11,000klms and 4,000klm with shudders.......
Thats a whole another story I was not going to bother to share, hahahaa......

Im hoping for some top answers from someone like ########## seems to know too much about these Vehicles.
Im a Vehicle tech in my own business, however specialising in brakes, I have only ever rebuilt a couple gearboxes a long time ago.
Definately not a tranny specialist, just cant understand how this issue has sort of come on so fast today.....
I will one way or another get the the bottom of it!

Thankx.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

So this morning Looking at the gearbox oil, it was bad, but not as bad as it looked in the dark shining a torch into it.
I refilled the gearbox with Nulon g70 (one tube) and Castrol Multitrax
Immediately before driving, it was still very hard to select gears - lowest was the hardest.
This is where i wish I knew a little more or could rember more of whats going on in the box.
Im sure all the synchros cant have got that bad suddenly, but there is something that has......????
So I took it for a 5 minute drive and it seemed to improve a little. The clutch shudder was there, must be mainly when cold, not too bad.
Put it back up and changed the rear diff and transfer case also. just checking for water really.
decided to replace clutch fluid again and give it a good bleed.
soon i will drive it for a while and see what happens.

who knows about gearboxes?

[mackayvx Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mackayvx]

Im not sure why your thinking gearbox when it seems pretty clear its a problem with your clutch... your chasing your tail until you confirm its NOT your clutch... take it in for a professionals 2nd opinion.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Im not sure why your thinking gearbox when it seems pretty clear its a problem with your clutch... your chasing your tail until you confirm its NOT your clutch... take it in for a professionals 2nd opinion.

I'm thinking gearbox, because it has a new clutch that seems to be engaging and disengaging,
Can you explain further why you think that it's a clutch problem? And what you mean by not properly torqued?
Like if the bolts are 20nm not 40 or 60nm what the difference?
Or are you saying they are loose? If they were loose surely this would cause less clamping and slippage? Which I don't have.
It was at the installers supposedly professionals yesterday, they said the clutch and gearbox is fine......
If I knew where there was a true professional I would take it there for their opinion.

After changing the oil it is much better, but still not good, I am able to select first much better actually normal 9 out of 10 times, however 2nd is still hard at an easy slow change even.

[mackayvx Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close mackayvx]

[QUOTE=#############;361542]

Noticed since the clutch was replaced 2 months ago, gearbox has been a bit notchy at times, but not too bad.

Double clutching helps.

but it feels similar to when the clutch isn't disengaging fully.

[QUOTE]


First off, i dont have the ability to leave detailed replys as my lappy is stuffed and im working from my phone.
Secondly, the description YOU have given is explicit in descibing the clutch.
Third, a loose/cracked/burnt clutch plate or a cracked & unmachined flywheel will give all of the above sypmtoms.

I havent searched... but have you done a search on geatbox failures here on PP? Maybe you sjould google the same on a clutch failure and see what comes out of it... Goodluck.

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

It's unlikely anyone could be silly enuff to leave a clutch cover loose, I'm not sure how it would be burnt or cracked, it is 2 months old and never sliped, as I said works well except for a minor shudder.

Anyway had other opinions they they said 70% change it's a clutch problem, they couldn't explain how or why though???

I had a 27yr experience Toyota bloke drive it today, he said they have never had problems with Prado manuals.
He drove it, and sure like I said the symptoms are similar to clutch not fully disengaging at times, however driving when you stop and it won't go in 1st, even if you force it, then u stop the engine and still won't go in.....
Also it seems to have a small amount of drive in neutral clutch out.

He seems to be sure it's a gearbox problem.
Again not too sure what???

Has anyone ever had a problem with a Prado gearbox?
I dont mean clutch!

I'm always using fone also, it's a bit painful!

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

As already stated sounds like the clutch not disengaging properly, syncromesh works by matching the gear speed, to do this it has to slow or speed up the clutch disc. When the speeds match the syncro cones aligns the gears and when aligned the shift forks can slide locking rings into place and so the transmission goes into gear. Even with the motor off if the clutch doesn't dis engage properly there will not be enough play to allow the syncro rings to align the gears so that the locking ring can mesh.

Cheers
LeighW

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

Thankx for the input LeighW

Any ideas why only since this issue has arisen suddenly Friday,
Why with the clutch engaged in neutral there is slight drive ?
If I'm on a slight incline in neutral, clutch engaged it holds position.
If I disengage the clutch it slowly rolls back.
This is what else is telling me it's disengaging.
I'm sure it didn't do that before Friday.
Surely it shouldn't have some drive in neutral
How can the clutch do that?

Also when you push to get first, In a vehicle without using clutch you will get some biting, crunching and a stall.
This is rock solid, but intermittent.

[LeighW Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close LeighW]

The syncro rings basically little clutches, made of brass alloy (maybe some other alloy theses days) and wear out very quickly if the clutch is crook. If you are getting some drive in neutral it either the bearing in the rear of the input shaft that locates the output shaft is binding or more likely a syncro ring is not releasing properly, this could be caused by a damage detent clip/syncro ring/selector mech etc which will most likely have resulted due to the clutch issue and use of required excessive force to select gears.

Cheers
LeighW

[Anth120playdo Banned Find all posts View Profile Close Anth120playdo]

A synchro getting stuck or been damaged or a binding bearing sounds like a possibility. I think they are brass.
I have not had clutch issues yet to cause anything, just a shudder, the force required is the gearbox problem.
Since changing the gearbox oild and adding g70 the more I drive it, the more it seems to improve, after 100klms it is 90% better, sometimes it selects gears perfectly.