Torque Convertor lock up instal

[BigFoot120 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close BigFoot120]

Jamie. You have certainly started an interesting subject here. Is there a record on number of posts? This one must be close.
I agree that Prado A/Ts are very robust and hopefully you won't get any problem. My old 4 speed is up to 250K km and still going strong. In fact the whole car is the same. I don't think I have put oil or water in anything since I got it back in 2009 except to change engine oil of course.
I am probably being overcautious after having a Turbo 350 selection clutch fail in a 6.6L 1979 TA, many years ago. The scary thing is, once I noticed it slipping, it worsened so fast I had trouble getting home. I can't remember which clutch it was but it seemed to affect all or most gears. I know it was pretty cooked when I dismantled it. Hopefully Prado A/Ts don't deteriorate so rapidly. I would hate to have it happen up at the tip of Cape York.
Anyway the electronic version is a good project to keep me inside while recovering from a recent bone marrow transplant. Besides I thrive on this stuff having done it most of my life. This one is a lot of fun.
I'll let you know how it goes. I'm probably not going to get to it until after the silly season now.
Cheers, Rob

[Davis Dieso Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davis Dieso]

Don't know anything about the number of posts Rob, it was just meant to put it out there what I had done. I didn't really care if no one liked it or ever did it. Just a cheap trial run for me.
Understand the angst with the turbo 350 failure. I haven't had an auto fail personally yet (oops touch wood), but have had customers cars fail. I used to overhaul trimatics (ie: traumatics) out of HX/HZ holdens moons ago in Darwin. One every day, remove from car, completely strip (and valve body) re-assemble and back in the car, each day. The reverse clutch linings used to fall off, very handy. You knew if it needed it or not, took ages to select reverse.
My 2003 has just ticked over the 300k so expecting another 100k before she departs my ownership. Unfortunately for her, she has been belted around the deserts and outback tracks of Aus' and showing the signs.
Anyway Rob, good luck with your recovery and hope you get your instal up and running
Cheers, Jamie

[mcgyver Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close mcgyver]

Hello Dieso,
I have tried to open the above link.
Is it still available.
Cheers Mcgyver

[smally Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close smally]

Awesome work Bigfoot. Any idea on how to achieve my goal of altering the shift points to make them all occur earlier? Altering the throttle position sensor input springs to mind, but I'd be concerned about lowering the line pressure & therefore 'clamping' force internally. A switchable 'economy' mode would be ideal.

[Davis Dieso Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davis Dieso]

Hello Dieso,
I have tried to open the above link.
Is it still available.
Cheers Mcgyver

You mean the link below Mcgyver?

I just tried it and it worked no worries.

Cheers, Jamie

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmTgP7Lchc0

[BigFoot120 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close BigFoot120]

Awesome work Bigfoot. Any idea on how to achieve my goal of altering the shift points to make them all occur earlier? Altering the throttle position sensor input springs to mind, but I'd be concerned about lowering the line pressure & therefore 'clamping' force internally. A switchable 'economy' mode would be ideal.

I'm probably not the one to address this. I'm more into the electronics side of things, though I have overhauled A/Ts for my own purposes. Not much experience with the hydraulic controls though. I would like to reduce the speed at which the TCC engages. 80k in 4th and 70k in 3rd is too high. If it were possible to reduce it that would be the best solution.

[BigFoot120 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close BigFoot120]

Now that the silly season is over I finally got around to installing my auto release TCC locker and it works as expected however I do have some issues with the concept with it's application to 4spd petrol versions at least. There is a tendency to struggle when the additional gears provided by the TC for 3rd and 4th are removed. This may not be such an issue for diesels with their broader torque curves.

Here's the link to the documents. I've updated the description doc to add the test drive results and added a couple of installation pics.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eq3pu6e7f...OomAu6lra?dl=0

Cheers
Bob

[MRW82 Member Find all posts View Profile Close MRW82]

You can shift from neutral to drive without foot on brake

[chardo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close chardo]

MRW82
Hi Mark, Happy New Year, Have you put a few more Kms on the testing, and how is it going??? I think there are a few waiting for more news. Cheers Bill

Happy New Year All, Hope 2015 is a good one for everyone. Cheers Bill.

[MRW82 Member Find all posts View Profile Close MRW82]

G'day bill, I haven't really got anything more to report as I haven't done any more towing, I have played around without towing and it works fine but is unnecessary without any load as the auto is pretty smart anyway.

[Davis Dieso Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Davis Dieso]

Now that the silly season is over I finally got around to installing my auto release TCC locker and it works as expected however I do have some issues with the concept with it's application to 4spd petrol versions at least. There is a tendency to struggle when the additional gears provided by the TC for 3rd and 4th are removed. This may not be such an issue for diesels with their broader torque curves.

Here's the link to the documents. I've updated the description doc to add the test drive results and added a couple of installation pics.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/eq3pu6e7f...OomAu6lra?dl=0

Cheers
Bob

Crickey Bob, I've read all your instructions, and may I say just how complex and proffesional they are. It must be your area of expertise as a layman as myself would have buckley's of coming up with all that. Well done!
My basic, self made lock-up system is nothing to all that, but I must say it works a treat. I understand yours and anyone elses concerns about the trans shifting gears whilst the TC is locked. I am just being a guinea pig and seeing just how long it will last. So far (18,000km approx) no sign of a problem. If a problem rears its ugly head, I will post it here for sure.

Well done again Bob,

Cheers, jamie

[smally Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close smally]

I'm probably not the one to address this. I'm more into the electronics side of things, though I have overhauled A/Ts for my own purposes. Not much experience with the hydraulic controls though. I would like to reduce the speed at which the TCC engages. 80k in 4th and 70k in 3rd is too high. If it were possible to reduce it that would be the best solution.

I hear what you are saying. The shift points are electronically controlled, not worried too much about the internal hydraulics at this stage.
I'd love it to shift earlier if there is a way, the shift logic in these things is awful. Just came back from a 1400km highway trip and I found myself backing off the throttle to get the stupid thing to upshift when over taking. Sounds weird, but no point revving at 3500 and not accelerating when you are on the wrong side of the road!
Any idea on how to make it do this would be appreciated.

[BigFoot120 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close BigFoot120]

I hear what you are saying. The shift points are electronically controlled, not worried too much about the internal hydraulics at this stage.
I'd love it to shift earlier if there is a way, the shift logic in these things is awful. Just came back from a 1400km highway trip and I found myself backing off the throttle to get the stupid thing to upshift when over taking. Sounds weird, but no point revving at 3500 and not accelerating when you are on the wrong side of the road!
Any idea on how to make it do this would be appreciated.

Smally. Your right! I was thinking "old world" with my thoughts on shift points. Yes the ECU is where the shift points are determined. It wouldn't be too difficult to do your own thing and completely bypass the ECU control in the 4 speed at least. I don't think it would spit fault codes. It may be different story on the later models though. I think I would use a purely digital approach using a PIC microcontroller with A to D capability so I could take in Tacho and Speed analog inputs as well as the pressure control solenoid voltage which gives load info. Then it would be a simple mater of driving the shift solenoids. Thinking out loud here. There are other issues in the 4 speed, and probably others, in that some of the gear selections are mechanical. Park and reverse for example. However you do have those signals as discretes to the ECU so it wouldn't be too bad.

I'm intrigued that yours is a bit late upshifting. My 4 speed is opposite to that. It's a bit late downshifting when slowing down under light loads. What model Prado are you running?

Cheers
Rob

[BigFoot120 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close BigFoot120]

Crickey Bob, I've read all your instructions, and may I say just how complex and proffesional they are. It must be your area of expertise as a layman as myself would have buckley's of coming up with all that. Well done!
My basic, self made lock-up system is nothing to all that, but I must say it works a treat. I understand yours and anyone elses concerns about the trans shifting gears whilst the TC is locked. I am just being a guinea pig and seeing just how long it will last. So far (18,000km approx) no sign of a problem. If a problem rears its ugly head, I will post it here for sure.

Well done again Bob,

Cheers, jamie

Thanks Jamie. I would hate to count the number of years I have been in this game. I still get a kick out of designing weird things, even though it was my job. My car and boat are full of them.

There's nothing wrong with your electromagnetical approach. There always easy to troubleshoot when things go wrong.

If you stick to using your full time locker on trips, when you are mostly at cruise, there will be minimal locked mode changes happening, so life of those selection clutches shouldn't be impacted significantly.

I don't tend to engage my locker around town as I miss the extra acceleration and performance provided by the TC. It's great when towing though. Being able to do something about cruising for miles on end with the TC unlocked is brilliant.
It reminds me of towing a big boat with an old 179 manual EH Holden. Cruising in a head wind, it couldn't hold top gear, so I would cruise for hours at 55mph in second gear. It loved it and economy wasn't too bad. However, I then made the mistake of buying a HQ auto, which of course didn't have a TCC. Towing the same boat was a disaster for the wallet as well as overheating. I had to take the bonnet off just to keep it cool. Forking out all that money on fuel just to heat up a torque converter doesn't seem like a smart thing to be doing.

Cheers
Bob

[smally Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close smally]

Smally. Your right! I was thinking "old world" with my thoughts on shift points. Yes the ECU is where the shift points are determined. It wouldn't be too difficult to do your own thing and completely bypass the ECU control in the 4 speed at least. I don't think it would spit fault codes. It may be different story on the later models though. I think I would use a purely digital approach using a PIC microcontroller with A to D capability so I could take in Tacho and Speed analog inputs as well as the pressure control solenoid voltage which gives load info. Then it would be a simple mater of driving the shift solenoids. Thinking out loud here. There are other issues in the 4 speed, and probably others, in that some of the gear selections are mechanical. Park and reverse for example. However you do have those signals as discretes to the ECU so it wouldn't be too bad.

I'm intrigued that yours is a bit late upshifting. My 4 speed is opposite to that. It's a bit late downshifting when slowing down under light loads. What model Prado are you running?

Cheers
Rob

'05 KZJ120. The trans is the only thing that annoys me, other than that I love it! Bypassing the ECU altogether seems a fairly radical (to me) concept. I was thinking more along the lines of altering the speedo signal to make it shift earlier. I am assuming that these things have a stand alone trans ECU.