Traction Control

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The VX and Grande come with no rear LSD, they have traction control.
How is this system working of road, does it seem better ?
I read an article in a 4/4 mag and they rated the traction control a better system.

Any input ???

[Justo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Justo]

It's awesome.. Only time it does get a bit defeated is in soft sand at times. Others have reported the same elsewhere in this forum.
Have heard reports of the lsd diffs blowing.. I dont know how much of an issue it really is though.

[ando Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ando]

Traction control works really well. Like to see what its like compared to lockers. Not sure about the LSD setup

[ando Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ando]

Interesting. Thanks

[xvprado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xvprado]

Not a lot of value comparing TC to LSD, Toyota LSDs are crap whilst there TC is very very good

The better comparison is TC to diff locks, no, Im not saying TC is as good as diff locks, Im saying they are an effective comparison. TC will take you 95% of places locked diffs will, if you drive to the conditions....you dont drive TC with a bootfull of rev's, moreso you manage your vehicles momentum without invoking the TC to overwork

I drove a Hilux, GU and Prado on the same hill with identical tyres/pressures and conditions. The Prado with TC effectively "walked" the hill better than the other two, it was not an easy track by any means, but the TC certainy did its job. I also drove the same hill with the Lux locked up, and quite frankly it went better, but it was marginal

So, compare apples to apples, diff locks rule, no argument, but TC does a good job

Interestingly Ive been tracking the diff go pop thing in the 120's

Havent heard of one with TC let go yet, all have been LSD...coincidence?...I dunno

[ando Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ando]

So from that, would you say that it wouldnt be worth spending 3 grand to go from traction control to front and rear lockers?

[xvprado Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close xvprado]

So from that, would you say that it wouldnt be worth spending 3 grand to go from traction control to front and rear lockers?

In a TC prado ?...nup waste of money in my view, in a LSD one I wouldnt bother either because I dont see a Prado as being an "out there" fourby, just a good moderate wagon. I do understand that plenty of people build em up to be more capable, my personal feeling is that i would buy something else to commit that sort of money to (Patrol or LC 78 with the new turbo donk for example)
So, I dont disagree with a diff lock or two to replace the LSD, just wouldnt do it personally as i dont rate the vehicle as being capable of fully utilising diff locks, controversial opinion probably, but thats my view

Now if you were talking tyres...theres an investment worth the money to get the best out of Traction control

BTW, Im not Prado bashing, my third one arrives in July

[Justo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Justo]

Hopefully there is no issue with the diff on TC Prado's..!! I'm guessing open diff's are less prone to go "bang" compared to LSD's. However it would be interesting to see how LSD diffs would last on a TC vehicle.! It would have to help take some of the stress out when a spinning wheel grabs a tyre load of traction as there is usually less spin to start with.
Lockers would be nice..but maybe if you cant get there with TC it might be worth considering a winch instead of lockers. Winch will get you out of places lockers wont, and for half the cost.! Just my opinion..! 8)
Mind you I would prob have lockers as well if I had one of those money trees Chippy mentioned.. :lol:

[Drew Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Drew]

It would have to help take some of the stress out when a spinning wheel grabs a tyre load of traction as there is usually less spin to start with.

This would appear to be logical, but I've lost count of the number of times I've had my 120 crossed up and had the rear axle doing a first rate impression of an open diff, so I think, as has been discussed, the LSD is really a limited device, more designed for situations like on flat dirt when you give it a boot full. As it happens, I'm thoroughly over my LSD, it's going on the wall of the shed once I get the ARB Airlocker fitted.

It's got me stuffed why Toyota don't offer the electric lockers as an option on the 120, they make them and they are available for other 'Cruisers. :?

Mind you I would prob have lockers as well if I had one of those money trees Chippy mentioned.. :lol:

I think my money tree died in the drought. Or maybe I pissed on it late one night. :lol: Sorry.

Drew.

[blw Member Find all posts View Profile Close blw]

Does the traction control on the Grande work on both the rear and front wheels?

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TC

I would say, yes

[Justo Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Justo]

Yes the traction control works together with the ABS. So its actually monitoring and aiding traction when necessary to each individual corner.

[joedan Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close joedan]

The best thread I have read re the A-Trac system on the Prados is here...

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25

(It's a US thread but relates to the same system in the Prado here).

But the vid link below sums it up really well. It is actually from someone in Oz, possibly a pradopoint member????

http://jason.qgl.org/gallery/albums/Sun ... w-qual.avi

There is a higher quality version on his site.

[quadcam Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close quadcam]

Not a lot of value comparing TC to LSD, Toyota LSDs are crap whilst there TC is very very good

The better comparison is TC to diff locks, no, Im not saying TC is as good as diff locks, Im saying they are an effective comparison. TC will take you 95% of places locked diffs will, if you drive to the conditions....you dont drive TC with a bootfull of rev's, moreso you manage your vehicles momentum without invoking the TC to overwork

I drove a Hilux, GU and Prado on the same hill with identical tyres/pressures and conditions. The Prado with TC effectively "walked" the hill better than the other two, it was not an easy track by any means, but the TC certainy did its job. I also drove the same hill with the Lux locked up, and quite frankly it went better, but it was marginal

So, compare apples to apples, diff locks rule, no argument, but TC does a good job

Interestingly Ive been tracking the diff go pop thing in the 120's

Havent heard of one with TC let go yet, all have been LSD...coincidence?...I dunno

If I may add a few comments to the general discussion. An observation I read somewhere quite a while ago (obviously by someone well experienced) was that the more traction aids you have, the further you can get into the (**cross out as applicable) bog hole / crevass / quicksand before you finally get stuck, meaning it is an even harder job getting out.

In my BC (Before landCruiser prado) years I have had a variety of 4wds and have always either shimmed up the LSD really tight or fitted Detroit Lockers. Tightening the LSD only really worked with the lighter weight vehicle and the Detroit, while offering fantastic drive, has definite anti-social habits around town in a part-time 4wd. My previous 4wd was a constant 4wd and the Detroit was virtually un-noticable as the power is always being spread thru the 2 wheels on the other axle as well as the Detroit, so there was no tyre chirp on tight cornering even if you tried to provoke it.

Traction control, to my mind, makes it a lot easier for the novice driver to get further (as in para 1) but with the under-considered risk of being relegated to open front / rear diffs if there is a system failure or system under-performance. I had a Discovery 2 as a loan car one day and while driving around the suburbs (and not thrashing it) the ABS, ETC, HDC failure lights came on and stayed on. I guess it had lost the signal from one wheel speed sensor but the same thing can happen in your VX or Grande. Also, the Traction control uses solenoid valves and an accumulator / pressure pump (I think) to apply the brakes to spinning wheels. Those components would be working under substantial pressures I think. Can they overheat and stop working if you are giving them a big workout.

In the vid, while there is plently of wheel lifting, the mounds appear to have a smooth-ish approach to them. Can the traction control muster enough clamp on an airborn wheel if its mate on the same axle is up against a step. Someone with a auto could try a simple test to see how good the brakes really are. On a flat road in 1st gear low range with your left foot hard on the brake see if the brakes hold the car with the accelerator applied. If the vehicle moves then I doubt the ETC could provide enough drive to the wheels with grip if there is something else impeding the car.

My personal preference is for a rear auto-locking diff regardless of TC or not. If it has TC that is an added bonus, but not to be relied on without some form of mechanical backup because the one time it fails will be when it's really needed.

Re the blown diffs on non VX/Grande. Perhaps that is because of sheer numbers of GX/GXL's compared to VX/Grande's and maybe the VX/G's are more predominantly urban usage. :?

[wengnuts Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close wengnuts]

quadcam, what advantage does ARB air lockers have over traction control or vice versa?

In the situation where the front right wheel and the rear left wheel is off the ground, will the traction control still enable the vehicle to advance ahead? Or is lockers the solution for this situation?

Cheers