Blocking EGR

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Cheers rod

Much appreciated!

I think i have covered all the areas of concern that the EGR system has on the 1KD D4D and its very close relationship it has with the Turbo.

I like allot of other people out there fitted the blanking plate without researching properly first and got to experience the outcome first hand then sat down and gave it some thought! (I walked the walk Lol).

The only difference that concerned me was that there would have been some people out there that would have had to pay someone to fit and remove that pesky plate! "Hence the post"

It only took me two hours to remove/replace EGR and cooler to fit the blanking plate (And clean EGR etc) but i am sure it would have caused allot of tears for those who are not in the know! Hence i had to share the experience

I figured that when i had to pull it apart "AGAIN" to remove that blasted plate i also carried on and pulled the manifold off so that i could clean that as well. That process took me a full day and it did need cleaning! (115K).

I drove up to Queensland today 1,000km and my 07 Prado drove really good

I am passionate about my work and have been a car Mechanic/Technician for the past thirty years.

I also made my own oil/water separator (PCV filter) so i will have to do a separate thread for that one!

It wouldn't suit those with duel batt and ABS as i modified a marine fuel water separator to accomplish a big surface area in-order to trap as much water and oil as possible without restriction of flow but i will save that for another thread and then yo all can build your own off that one!

This sight is all about sharing

Cheers
Chris.

[the ferret Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close the ferret]

Keep up the good work mate, it's great that you are happy to share your findings.
I am sure that many on here appreciate the time and effort you have put into it.
Regards, the ferret.

[ookami Member Find all posts View Profile Close ookami]

I looked into this ages ago and had a fiddle - I think from memory there were two vacuum lines associated with the EGR setup, blocking one resulted in the engine fault code being shown. The other stopped the EGR cooler bypass valve from operating. Blocking the EGR only results in poor fuel economy and a loss in power - regardless of design or size the hole and ecu that is used.
Other than cleaning of the intake track every 100,000km or so the only other possible solution is a Wynns product as per the link http://www.wynns.net/product_files/E...2193%20PIS.pdf

The long and short version is - LEAVE YOUR EGR ALONE! It's not worth the hassle.

[switched Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close switched]

Spot on Ookami, my thoughts exactly. I've since ordered a few cans of JLMs EGR intake cleaner, yet to receive but will keep you all posted.
http://www.jlm-baltics.com/galery/_j...air_intake.pdf

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hi ookami

My main reason for doing a in-depth detail on how the EGR and the TURBO works together was because i had always seen that people were having problems with the mod's etc but no one came up with a clean and cut explanation on how and exactly the EGR on the 1KD D4D works and what the true pit-falls where?

Hence my in-depth detail and explanation on replys "6 - 10 & 14"

Quote: ookami 04:39 PM
I looked into this ages ago and had a fiddle - I think from memory there were two vacuum lines associated with the EGR setup, blocking one resulted in the engine fault code being shown.

Answer: Yes you are correct that there is two vacuum hoses on the actual EGR valve at the very back of the engine near the fire wall that is monitored by the engines ECU and this very valve is also used to dump the access turbo boost BACK into the exhaust via the heat exchange which is what i explained in reply "14" paragraph 4-5-6 and 7 on the 1KD D4D and not the 1KZ! So ANY tampering with those two hoses WILL cause mayhem with the ECU and turbo boost.

Quote: ookami 04:39 PM
The other stopped the EGR cooler bypass valve from operating. Blocking the EGR only results in poor fuel economy and a loss in power - regardless of design or size the hole and ecu that is used.

Answer: The blanking plate "Yes" will cause mayhem But the single vacume hose "No". The single EGR cooler bypass hose IS separate from the two hoses that are on and operate the EGR valve that is at the rear of the engine but does work in tandame with the EGR heat exchange in order to dump the access turbo boost but both of these ports are linked together and one cools hot gases and the other is a straight through port and both lead to the same Exhaust port in the cylinder head and do not restricted the turbo dump if this single vacuum line is disconnected below the inlet manifold.

EG: When the engine is drawing hot EGR gases into the engine from the exhaust the EGR cooler closes one port (By-Pass none cooled for turbo dump) on the heat exchange and the gases are drawn through the port that is cooled by the engines coolant to cool the hot exhaust gases before being drawn into the intake manifold.

When the engine reaches access boost it needs to dump this boost back into the exhaust and the ONLY way it can do this is to send the access boost BACK through the EGR valve at the back of the engine, Back through the EGR heat exchange then back into the exhaust system. As the access boost is heading back to the exhaust the single hose that is on the heat exchange (separate from the two hoses that are on the EGR valve next to the fire wall at the back of the engine) then closes the port that cools the hot gases on the heat exchange (As this port has a restricted flow due to the cooling veins) then opens the none cooled port (Higher none restricted none cooled) so that the turbo boost can be dumped quickly.

As i explained in reply "14" paragraph 12 & 13.

Hope i have made the EGR principle a bit clearer to understand and that my reply is not to offend but to help everyone to understand the principle clearly in order to save un-seen stress and untold long term damage further down the track

PS to ookami

You put a big smile on my face when you said!

Quote: The long and short version is - LEAVE YOUR EGR ALONE! It's not worth the hassle.

Spot on mate

Cheers
Chris.

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Hi all


PS. Hint! I basically mean to say Do Not Block EGR port with a blanking plate on 1KD D4D.

Hope this has made a few things clearer for some one who is thinking of fitting the blanking plate on the EGR on the 1KD D4D.

Hi all,

I just joined this forum following a search on the net regards egr blanking, and i have to say this thread has the most accurate info regards 1kd egr systems.( thanks Skywalker)

I have also blanked the egr valve on my Landcruiser 120 1kd d4d model ( from ireland),
as i have already cleaned the egr system twice and then got fed up, because the intake manifold kept getting clogged.

After doing some extensive research and engine monitoring i discovered that a few things were just not right after the egr block off.
Flat spots in power, not sure about consumption yet, but i also think car is not running as smooth.
I actually never tought about turbo wastegate thing tbh, but Toyota technical bulletin indeed states that blocked egr valve will cause excessive loud turbo noise, which i presume is because of nowhere to vent the turbo pressure, as per skywalkers describtion.
Another thing was Airflow meter readings, on idle stanard range is bettwen 5-11gm/s and my car MAF readings were around 20gm/s, obviously due to blocked egr and all the air flow was now from the airfilter housing, rather then some from the egr.
Higer maf readings then fool the ecu into adding more fuel because of more air flow,thus higher fuel consumption.
Not good. Im going to unblock it again, and this time i will install and an oil catch can and hope for the best.
I was also thinking of maybe drilling the hole on the blaking plate and atleast allow some of the egr fumes back in but not 100% sure on this idea.

Thanks

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday xpro.

Thank you for your Positive feed back

In answer to your last question!

Quote:

I was also thinking of maybe drilling the hole on the blaking plate and at least allow some of the egr fumes back in but not 100% sure on this idea.

Answer:

I would "NOT" drill a hole in the EGR blocking plate on the 1KD D4D (Not the 1KZ) but rather to "Completely Remove It" because by restricting the EGR gases to reduce the fouling of your intake manifold you are also inadvertently restricting the turbo dump pressures Which need to be dump very quickly back into the exhaust system or they will backtrack through the inter-cooler/intake turbo/MAF sensor/air box etc which in turn also stalls the turbo! (Hence increased turbo noise) This will also put increased pressure on the PCV gases if they exceed the sump blow-by pressures (Oil Leaks) - (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) which are drawn in through the turbo after the clean air intake.

To Every Action It Attracts A Reaction! Not Always A Positive One!

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[BusterOz Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BusterOz]

See here - use Google translate

http://www.kdjoteros.com/Brico.EGR.php

Tony

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday BusterOz

Isn't your truck a 12/07 D4D? What state are you from as no details?

The link that you have provided for cleaning and blocking the EGR is a good one if you have a 1KZ engine but would not work for the 1KD D4D!

Here is the link to translate from Spanish to English

http://translate.google.com.au/#es|en|

Cheers

[BusterOz Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BusterOz]

Hi Skywalkerrun,

I didn't realise there were 2 types od D4Ds, the 1KZ and 1KD - the pictures in the link are a D4D?

I am in Sydney NSW.

Mine is a 1KD D4D

Tony

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday BusterOz

Hello from Gosford to Sydney!

I do not know anything about the older European models but the D4D looking engine does not have the same egr heat exchange as the 1KD-D4D's here in oz so i wouldn't know if it has a variable high pressure turbo? (Could be a normal vacuum operated waste gate turbo! ----- Same as the 1KZ's)

Did you also notice that the EGR valve its self has no electronic sensor switch on the vacuum canister? (Im guessing by the set-up that this engine is a pre high pressure variable turbo!)

If it was to have a variable high press turbo (Dont think so!) there is NO-WAY you can block the EGR without an error code! ...... If you was to drill a whole in the blanking plate (which he does not advise) then you will loose fuel consumption due to trapped boost pressure as explained in full detail on reply #14 of this thread.

Hope i have made a few points of observation to this link http://www.kdjoteros.com/Brico.EGR.php clearer.

This mod would work perfectly for the 1KZ engine due to the normal vacuum operated turbo and independent operation of EGR which is not associated with the turbo as on the 1KD-D4D high pressure turbo engines.

Hope i have made a few things clearer!

Cheers

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hi Guys

I wanted to keep this thread on topic with the "Blocking EGR" so i carried the topic on the "TOYOTA-Land-Cruiser-KDJ-D4D-163CV over to another thread

Here is the link below
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...0-GX-D4D-163CV

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Right. I have since removed the blanking plate from my landcruiser kdj120 d4d, and installed an oil catch can ( Compressor Water trap to be precise) as i can monitor it closely due to a clear bottle. It doesnt seem to interfere with engine whatsoever, it is circulating the air freely as before, but its able to trap any sort of oil mist present in the air. I will give it a couple of weeks and then remove the intercooler again and see wether the oil build up in the intake system is gone.
Thanks

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Right, a quick update>

I ran the car for a few weeks with oil catch can installed to see if it helps with egr carbon build up.
I removed the intercooler, no oil present as before, all passages clean of oil, BUT egr and intake manifold are slowly starting to build carbon deposits.How, i dont know, theres no oil present yet the egr valve is getting dirty again.
Not sure on whats the next step, but i certainly dont want to go trough a whole procedure of cleaning the egr and manifold again in a few months time.

At this stage im not quite sure if EGR acts as a wastegate, but i cannot confirm this yet as there no mention of it in toyota technical bulletins.
If i block it again, it will stay clean, but all the parameters get messed up ( like MAF, fuel injection, strain on the vacum pump)

Hopefully someone here might come with better idea!!

Thanks

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday xpro

The oil catch-can only traps a majority of the oil mist vapor that is being drawn back into the engine from the PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) which is then re-circulated via the turbo/inter-cooler/manifold intake!

You will still get carbon soot build-up in the intake via the EGR (Exhaust Gas Re-circulation) but it will not be as sticky as before as is no longer being saturated in the oil mist.

The carbon build-up on the EGR valve is the Exhaust gas emissions that are still being drawn into the engine that can not be blocked or restricted as this very same valve also dumps the access turbo boost pressure through that very same valve back into the exhaust system.

Blocking or restricting the EGR on the 1KD (Not the 1KZ) is not an option as it will block the turbo dumping process.

I have provided this link below as i feel that it is appropriate in comment linked to this thread in explanation as explained near the beginning of this thread (Blocking EGR) in detail.

http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread...l=1#post323312

Cheers

PS: I do have a theory in my head that i think will work to by-pass the EGR (1KD only & not the 1KZ) without blocking the turbo dump process and without interfering with the engine management electronics or using electronics to by-pass it (Obviously it is illegal on the emissions laws and would increase combustion temps on cruising & would increase Nox omissions.

I have not tried it on my car and is just a theory!