Blocking EGR

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Hi Guys

I have come up with an idea as far as the EGR by-pass hose if/when going submersible

Without going too far off topic from "blocking EGR" or being guilty of trying to answer a question that is directed to someone else (xpro) so please bare with me!

When a street car racer wants his turbo car to sound "COOL" (Petrol type as they produce "much" higher boost) They vent the turbo boost dump to atmosphere for that "whooooshka"! Lol... (High performance really/race cars also dump to atmosphere to help stop the leaning off of the fuel between gear change etc and helps to reduce turbo-stall!).

They normally re-direct the turbo dump "from" the air box to an open filter or valve. (In this case the Negative side of the diesel turbo into the air-box)... So if you was to direct the turbo boost dump (With xpro's EGR modification) into the air box (With snorkel fitted) it would not be able to congest water or dirt particles via the by-pass hose with a small high-flow water-resistant filter on the end of it (Not the paper type filter).

I believe the 14 to possible 16psi would not be enough pressure to damage or be restricted by the high flow filter, Nor would this pressure dump interfere with the MAF sensor. (This dump process would also have a quicker dumping process flow as appose to traveling back via the heat-exchange/cylinder-head journals and residual exhaust pressure).

As diesels produce low vacuum (especially on decell and cruise) the air intake flow to the EGR on cruise and low engine loads would also not be effected as the air-box pressure would be lower than the manifold due to the semi closing of the butterfly flap on the manifold intake to increase the manifold pressure.

This idea also brought another idea to mind! (Lets not stray too far from blocking EGR) Why not -T- together the breathers from the diff's & gearbox to a single hose then link that hose to the air-box! (Not enough vacuum in there to draw oil from the diff/gearbox on the diesel engine). This would mean that you can submerse the vehicle past the bonnet (Not recommended but if you did!) and know that the above can be done without drawing water. (The diff and gearbox only draw and extract air when heating and cooling via a small purge valve)..... Just a thought!

Cheers

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Following this with some interest - couple of questions for xpro.

1. How does the rubber tubing stand up to the heat of the exhaust gases or overboost?

2. Could you post a picture of the filter set up and how do you propose to keep it out of the way for water crossings etc?

My assumption is that when the overboost comes back thru the EGR it will go out thru the air filter to atmosphere, and you need to stop water and dirt getting back in throught the filter into the intake. So it has to be able to tolerate the pressure of the overboost 14+ psi as well as what ever the manifold pressure needs to suck back in. So...

3. How resilient is the filter to the changes imposed on it both in and out?

Thanks
DocK

Hi,

When you ask how does the hose cope with exhaust gases, the answer is it doesnt. The exhaust port is blocked off, hence the additional hole on the egr cooler. It now sucks fresh air instead of recycling the exhaust gases, so theres no temp increase within the egr system.

The filter i used at the end of the hose, to be honest is not a permanent idea, im still trying to come up with a soultion for something maybe more reliable and maintenance free.
What i have at the minute is just an oil brether filter that works, but obviously i will need to improve this.
Im not really afraid of the water ingress as i dont have a snorkel fitted anyways, so i wont be going swiming with it.
I was thinking of maybe fitting a small breather K&N filter, but that would be too open.
I like the skywalkerrun`s idea, maybe link the hose into the original airbox or something like that.
I need more ideas.......

Anyways, a quick update. Well over 1,000km now with this setup, car runs great, very smooth i must say. No EML
Fuel consumption is ok too, i dont think theres was any changes. Im gona have to fill it up and then compare the mileage, but i havent done that yet, im sort of just topping it up so i cant comment on that yet.

This is what i have at the minute, just to give you an idea

[DocK Member Find all posts View Profile Close DocK]

What do you think about attaching a small oil catch can with a stainless/alloy air filter to the EGR pipe? That would solve some of the problems of things getting back into the manifold and should tolerate the boost pressures fairly easily. It would not solve the deep water crossing dilemma but in those circumstances the rubber hose could be blocked off or clamped manually, if the water was deep enough to get over the bonnet that is!

[effex Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close effex]

I have read this thread with interest, before I go any further though please note I have a 1KZ-TE, just checking various items on my motor and I've noticed that at the rear of my motor on the passenger side there is a diaphragm setup this has a hose coming out towards a green white plastic "filter/valve" when I've checked this I've noticed that the centre of the hose is a slightly bulged between the diaphragm and the plastic "thing" when I inspect this I can see that the hose is actually blocked. At the moment I'm unaware of any problems caused by this blockage but should I replace this hose with one that isn't blocked or not?

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Hi all,

Some more testing done, and slight change of design this time.
The custom made pipe coming from the Egr exchanger that i welded on, is now routed directly into the main airbox, but before the airflow meter.
Two reasons why:
No need for external or secondary filter, car can now be submersed in water( providing you have a snorkel aswell) i dont...
Second reason, more important: by introducing the egr intake pipe before the MAF, airflow readings are now lower because the egr is taking the portion of the air before the airmass thus lowering the airmass values.
( when the egr is blocked fully, all the air travels trough the Maf, which means readings are higher and more fuel is being injected)
With my design now, the Maf readings are normal beetwen 5-10g/s, ( standard values with fully functioning egr)as opposite to 20+ g/s with the egr blocked.
Everything else is working fine, car is running very good, zero smoke and consumption is good i must say.

My only concern was the higher combustion temperatures as everybody associates with blocking the egr valve.
But as per my testing, the egr valve only operates on part load, and mostly on cruise. When engine load is above 40%, pretty much any time you accelerate, the egr system is shut, and i would presume this is when the combustion temps would be at their highest as you accelerate, turbo is boosting high and the pure oxygen is being used.
If the egr remained open during acceleration, obviously we would lose boost pressure. It doesnt make sense ha?

Cheers..




the pipe i have is little bit to short so i had to join it by using jubille clips. I will replace it as soonest i get another one. Looks OEM style


here you can see where i installed the fitting on the top of the airbox lid, just bellow the resonator box.This is where the egr gets the air from.

[SWR Banned Find all posts View Profile Close SWR]

Gday xpro

I am impressed with your efforts on the out-come To the average MOT inspection (RTA in Australia) they wouldn't even pick the mod and if they was to do an exhaust probe check (Mainly to check if catalytic is intact) they wouldn't even pick anything on the exhaust emissions either as the EGR doesn't open on idle! Lol... nice work!

I would imagine that the car is more responsive on the accelerator now that the engine is no longer congesting its own emissions crap and less premature fouling of the engine oil which will extend its life.. Lets not forget "The no more" fouling of the intake with sludgy soot

There will now only be a slight oil residue without the soot in the intake due to PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) mist if a catch can is not installed.

Respect to you for your time & efforts to make a theory become reality and to actually Beta test your own rig as the guini pig!

Now that it has been done... it can be done!

Cheers

[DocK Member Find all posts View Profile Close DocK]

I too am impressed - well done. I like the idea of not having to worry about a secondary filter it makes the whole approach more practical and acheivable.

One question though - how well does the air filter cope with the blow back boost?

[CostaRicanHilux Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close CostaRicanHilux]

Hey xpro, nice work dude !
How does it sound now thats its dumping into the airbox ? Any different from stock ?
Where did ya get and what kind of fitting did you use to make the port on the airbox?
this is most excellent.

[tappets Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tappets]

Hi, At the end of all of this are there actually any benefits in stopping EGR? Does it give more bottom end power, give smoother idle or just stop all of the exhaust gasses crudding up the inlet track?

Reading the Toyota manual it indicates that the EGR valve progressively closes as the engine revs rise, being fully open at idle and closed at 4000rpm!

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Hey xpro, nice work dude !
How does it sound now thats its dumping into the airbox ? Any different from stock ?
Where did ya get and what kind of fitting did you use to make the port on the airbox?
this is most excellent.

Thanks
No difference from stock, maybe on part throttle turbo seems to be more responsive due to more pressure in the exhaust, but i may well be imaging things
Fitting on the Airbox is 1.5" Brass water fitting i got from DIY shop

@ tappets
Egr doesnt have any major effect on performance, i blocked mine mainly due to carbon sludge and dirty deposits in the intake system.
At one stage my car was running very smoky and bad mpg due to all the carbon in the system.
Intake system is now clean and free of carbon, and the car is running smokless, even on hard acceleration.

[tappets Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tappets]

If you block off the vacuum pipe to the EGR valve the valve will not open. There is a sensor fitted to the top of the EGR valve which the main ECU monitors. If when the engine is warm and the EGR valve does not open at idle the ECU will show an engine malfunction on the dash.
In addition , if the EGR route from the exhaust mainfold to the inlet manifold is blocked ( EGR valve inactivated) there is no route for the excess turbo pressure to escape. This will cause the engine to have its power reduced by the ECU to ensure that it is not damaged. I am unclear from the Toyota manual if this causes an engine malfunction alarm on the dash.

[groeschel Member Find all posts View Profile Close groeschel]

Sorry to smash hopes but my tests were not successful. :-(
With an AU spec 2007 D4D the best I got before the dreadful CEL light came on was around 250Km (mainly on the freeway).
When commuting around town I get the CEL typically around 30km but it varies between 7km and 40km.
My theory is that the ECU is expecting some pressure increase from the open EGR valve and that sucking air in from the airbox is simply not enough.
Beside the EGR blanking mod I am running a CHIPIT chip.
Not sure if that is having an impact?

Did anybody else have some positive experience with this EGR mod on an AU D4D?

Cheers
Mike

Gday xpro

I am impressed with your efforts on the out-come To the average MOT inspection (RTA in Australia) they wouldn't even pick the mod and if they was to do an exhaust probe check (Mainly to check if catalytic is intact) they wouldn't even pick anything on the exhaust emissions either as the EGR doesn't open on idle! Lol... nice work!

I would imagine that the car is more responsive on the accelerator now that the engine is no longer congesting its own emissions crap and less premature fouling of the engine oil which will extend its life.. Lets not forget "The no more" fouling of the intake with sludgy soot

There will now only be a slight oil residue without the soot in the intake due to PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) mist if a catch can is not installed.

Respect to you for your time & efforts to make a theory become reality and to actually Beta test your own rig as the guini pig!

Now that it has been done... it can be done!

Cheers

[timmo23 Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close timmo23]

Hi all I've been watching this intently as I am keen to bypass my EGR purely to stop the crap being pumped back through the engine not worried about performance or fuel economy. Has anyone else done this to a Australia spec 1KD. Mine is a 2007 auto. I am keen to hear anyones feedback on how it has gone.groeschel have you done the mod the same as Xpro has described or just blocked it off. If so was is the fault code you are getting.

[groeschel Member Find all posts View Profile Close groeschel]

Hi timmo,
Did it the same way as described by Xpro
Did not check yet the fault code.
Cheers
Michael

Hi all I've been watching this intently as I am keen to bypass my EGR purely to stop the crap being pumped back through the engine not worried about performance or fuel economy. Has anyone else done this to a Australia spec 1KD. Mine is a 2007 auto. I am keen to hear anyones feedback on how it has gone.groeschel have you done the mod the same as Xpro has described or just blocked it off. If so was is the fault code you are getting.

[xpro Lurker Find all posts View Profile Close xpro]

Hi timmo,
Did it the same way as described by Xpro
Did not check yet the fault code.
Cheers
Michael

Im sorry to hear its not working out for you. My cruiser is still going strong and a good few miles was put on.
Did you blank the egr at manifold and then created another inlet for fresh air?
Generaly the ecu will throw an engine light when the Airflow meter readings are too high when on cruise, and this happens when the egr is fully blocked. The error will be displayed as "insufficient Egr Flow".
If you can block the egr to stop the fumes entering the system, but instead create another port for fresh air, this will simulate the Egr operation and thus reduce the AirMass readings ( or airflow Hertz).

Regards,