Toyota Feedback-Injector seal leak= screen clogging=Engine failure

[sacred cow Member Find all posts View Profile Close sacred cow]

Perhaps slightly off topic but I wonder if the earlier LC200s have been fitted with copper injector seals and if these are failing too.

Glenn

[pjorek Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close pjorek]

Very interesting read, I must say thank you gents!

So the general consensus is:

1. Buy yourself a proble and stick it up the sump everytime you change your oil (cheaper option)

2. For out $800 or thereabouts and change the seals, pipes etc.

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

PJ says: "Buy yourself a proble and stick it up the sump" (cheaper option)

Very interesting read, I must say thank you gents!

So the general consensus is:

1. Buy yourself a proble and stick it up the sump everytime you change your oil (cheaper option)

2. For out $800 or thereabouts and change the seals, pipes etc.

G'day PJ,

Mate that is a way cheaper option over doin' the dead donk. If all looks good you might be tempted not to touch anything but at the same time for piece of mind I would do the seals at leat at 40,000 KLM unless you see screen clogging between these intervals, then you need to install new seals ASAP.

My best guess is 50,000 KLM from leak start to engine failure per Injector, so if you are unfortunate enough to have 2 x leaks, maybe it is 25,000KLM until terminal.

If you check it every change, in the highly unlikely event you had 4 x leaking seals you could capture it before potential failure under 12,000KLM.

Wouldn't you know if your seals were leaking? Not always...

Remember also that because they make baked carbon when they leak they mostly kind off reseal, so no poor performance symptoms, but that baked carbon still breaks up into granules that is still slowly extruding under combustion pressure out into your oil under the rockercover, then flows down into the sump, clogged screen dead
D4D!

So yep, your proposed maintenance plan sounds a whole lot better than TMCs at the moment!

Landuser

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

I'll stick with the petrol 4Litre thanks, I might be paying more in L per 100 used but geez I make up for it in service repairs and parts cost.....and can save nearly 15c a litre on the cheap day for petrol.. Toyota need to lift there game or people will start walking......Cheers Steve

[rob_macca67 Avid PP Poster! Find all posts View Profile Close rob_macca67]

When doing an oil change, if u look at the oil coming out that there is there or would there be some sludge or lumpy bits that do manage to find their way out of the sump drain plug.... Cold or Hot?? I see that a lot gets stuck to the mesh but surely some must fall from this mesh and sink to the bottom of the sump ???

G'day PJ,

Mate that is a way cheaper option over doin' the dead donk. If all looks good you might be tempted not to touch anything but at the same time for piece of mind I would do the seals at leat at 40,000 KLM unless you see screen clogging between these intervals, then you need to install new seals ASAP.

My best guess is 50,000 KLM from leak start to engine failure per Injector, so if you are unfortunate enough to have 2 x leaks, maybe it is 25,000KLM until terminal.

If you check it every change, in the highly unlikely event you had 4 x leaking seals you could capture it before potential failure under 12,000KLM.

Wouldn't you know if your seals were leaking? Not always...

Remember also that because they make baked carbon when they leak they mostly kind off reseal, so no poor performance symptoms, but that baked carbon still breaks up into granules that is still slowly extruding under combustion pressure out into your oil under the rockercover, then flows down into the sump, clogged screen dead
D4D!

So yep, your proposed maintenance plan sounds a whole lot better than TMCs at the moment!

Landuser

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

Macca says"Surely some(lumps)must fall from the mesh & sink to the bottom of the sump

When doing an oil change, if u look at the oil coming out that there is there or would there be some sludge or lumpy bits that do manage to find their way out of the sump drain plug.... Cold or Hot?? I see that a lot gets stuck to the mesh but surely some must fall from this mesh and sink to the bottom of the sump ???

G'day Macca,

Mate, unfortunately most of the injector leak carbon lumps "are" sitting in the botom of the sump, lots of them!, Only some of the lumps (pebbles) suck up on the screen, but enough to clogg it over time.

These lumps are trapped in the sump floor, due to the poor design of the drain bung. So even with regular Oil changes these lumps can not escape your sump. They are trapped in there.

The only way to deal properly with a bad injector leak that over time has caused a potentialy terminal problem is to totally clean out & flush the oil system, or you risk continued screen buildup that will destroy your engine.

Onve you are cleaned out, and have new seals, you should be fine, but continued check for this is easy and simple piece of mind.

I will att pics again of the sump build up etc so you can see what I mean.

Landuser

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

When doing an oil change, if u look at the oil coming out that there is there or would there be some sludge or lumpy bits that do manage to find their way out of the sump drain plug.... Cold or Hot?? I see that a lot gets stuck to the mesh but surely some must fall from this mesh and sink to the bottom of the sump ???

Hi Macca,

Mate I should add that the pics I sent were of a Lux sump, but the problem is identical in Prado

Check this Prado link for relevent info.

http://www.tlocuk.co.uk/forums/viewt...b6048e53ea7a83

http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forum...p?f=12&t=10505

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=oi...9,r:2,s:0,i:74


Landuser

[bribiejohn Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bribiejohn]

About to have the 80k service and have the tappets adjusted, spoke to the Toyota Service Mgr who I have known for years and who i dont believe would give me the run around. He checked all recent service bulletins and found nothing from Toyota about seal replacement at 40K.So anybody got the date of this service bulletin or confirmation in writing from TMC that seals in OZ must be changed at 40K.I believe this dealership do check the oil screen anyway.

Bribiejohn

[Landuser Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Landuser]

Checked all recent service bulletins and found nothing from Toyota about seal replace

About to have the 80k service and have the tappets adjusted, spoke to the Toyota Service Mgr who I have known for years and who i dont believe would give me the run around. He checked all recent service bulletins and found nothing from Toyota about seal replacement at 40K.So anybody got the date of this service bulletin or confirmation in writing from TMC that seals in OZ must be changed at 40K.I believe this dealership do check the oil screen anyway.

Bribiejohn

G'day Bribie, This is currently a New Zealand TMC Service requirement, but like problems in OZ may require a similar approach, along with Oil Pickup Screen check.

As long as your dealer is already doing this for you & responding appropriately, you should be OK, I guess we will stay tuned to how TMC deal with this in OZ in comparison to other markets were Hilux is sold and wherethey are runing these types of checks & replacement.

Landuser

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Bribiejohn, no offence against your service manager mate BUT I have never seen Toyota take a rocker cover off yet to adjust shims in a toyota dealership yet, not unless there is a major issue. Now Im not saying he is full of shit and will do the wrong thing by you but I would definately be putting some form of marking some where on the rocker cover even a bit of tape write at the rear (so it cant be noticed) bit like a safety seal and see if it gets removed when they take the cover off ??? He might tell the mechanic to do it but wether it actually gets done or not will remain to be seen !!! Sorry but unless your standing over them I just dont trust them do be doing the write thing, and just out of curiosity I rang toyota today service department to ask them about a service on my diesel prado (D4D) (which I dont own) and told them I had heard about an issue with crap/sludge building up on the oil pick up screen and the seals on the injectors, he hadnt heard a thing about either of these issues and unless there was an issue which come up on there diagnostic machine or I had an issue with it running roughly they certainly wouldnt be touching the injectors, oh and also sir just to let you know that there is no more issues with injectors as they have all been superseeded to the newer style !!!!!!!!!! and the only possible way to get sludge or crap stick to your oil pick up screen (he called it some thing else) is if you have neglected to have your oil and filter changed as per logbook schedule.....Cheers Steve

[Ghost Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ghost]

curiosity I rang toyota today service department to ask them about a service on my diesel prado (D4D) (which I dont own) and told them I had heard about an issue with crap/sludge building up on the oil pick up screen and the seals on the injectors, he hadnt heard a thing about either of these issues and unless there was an issue which come up on there diagnostic machine or I had an issue with it running roughly they certainly wouldnt be touching the injectors, oh and also sir just to let you know that there is no more issues with injectors as they have all been superseeded to the newer style !!!!!!!!!! and the only possible way to get sludge or crap stick to your oil pick up screen (he called it some thing else) is if you have neglected to have your oil and filter changed as per logbook schedule.....Cheers Steve

That is really interesting to hear about no more injector issues.............. Wow this particular service centre must a) have their heads in the sand or B) lying!! Even my Toyota service centre who is at this stage replacing no4 injector of my prado (
Was one of the "new" types which failed, these 4 "new" style injectors only got replaced in November last year!! They agree they are still having issues with the new type. And still blame the fuel quality for some of the issues...

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

Yeah ghost mate I think they dam well know everything going on just dont want to admit to it so they can get out of warranty stuff. Bad fuel ?? I have no idea. I never had any issues with my old 2.8D hilux or my TD 1KZ prado BUT I know these two vehicles were like tractors compared to the newer injection systems and there does seem to be issues with injectors in a few different brands of vehicles so I suppose it possible. Bet if I rang again tomorrow Id get a different answer.....Cheers Steve

[Riv39 Advanced Member Find all posts View Profile Close Riv39]

I still don't get why a dealer would want to avoid doing warranty repairs. Just another source of income from TMC Aus if you ask me so why avoid? The only reason I can think of is they have to battle with TMC Aus to have them agree to pay.

[Steve M Addicted PP Member Find all posts View Profile Close Steve M]

all comes down 2 $$. The more they dont hav 2 put warranty issues through the better the dealer looks 2 head office. They could be makn more $$ out of general services and things that arnt covered by warranty.either way its easier to act dumb and wait till we complain about some thing or hopefully its out of warranty before we do. Can you imagine the expense to toyota if they put it out there that there is injector seal problems and oh yeah there ia issues with your oil pick up screen blocking up !!! No chance in hell of them admitting that or advertising it andits juat not toyota its all brands....cheers steve sent from nokia n8

[Fabes Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fabes]

I still don't get why a dealer would want to avoid doing warranty repairs. Just another source of income from TMC Aus if you ask me so why avoid? The only reason I can think of is they have to battle with TMC Aus to have them agree to pay.

Riv39
It's normally because there warranty labour rate isn't the same as there retail labour rate. Why would they want to push aside retail work when they can make huge profits on the filters, oil etc to fit a warranty job in that they probably get no mark up on the parts and there reimbursed labour rate is less......